PUBLIC MEETING NOTICE

Fulton Mall Water Feature

February 13, 2007

Location: Fresno City Hall Council Chambers

2600 Fresno Street, Fresno, CA 93721

Time: 5:00 p.m.

Special Guest: Danno Glanz, Principal, Calthorpe

City of Fresno: Jon Ruiz, Assistant City Manager
Kelly Riddle, Economic Development Coordinator
Jeff Eben, Deputy Mayor

The City of Fresno is exploring the possibility of a dramatic new water feature for the downtown, a ‘linear fountain’ that would help to revitalize the Fulton Mall, connect the City’s important new redevelopment projects, and generally reinvigorate the heart of the community. The planning and design of this downtown water feature will be an exciting challenge and opportunity. The ‘linear fountain’ will need to satisfy a number of important criteria: it will need to be interactive and fun; attractive to kids and families; accommodating of existing conditions on the Fulton Mall; cost effective; and environmentally friendly. It should celebrate the role of water in Fresno’s history and deepen the community’s appreciation of Fresno’s unique culture and setting. But, most of all, a new downtown water feature should bring people back to the center to rediscover the heart of the City! Interested? Come hear about the project and give us your ideas, thoughts, concerns.

The wavy pattern is the part of the "Mall Sculpture” created by the artist who envisioned the concrete patterns to represent agriculture fields of the valley. Each of the Mall fountains represent a part of Central California and contain a descriptive story. The mall is a very large single sculpture designed specifically for Fresno.

Leo is right, it's certainly possible to "update" or "freshen" a classic design, including the Fulton Mall. Take for example the Saroyan Theatre - it's also a mid-century modern building and they just did a really nice job renovating it, keeping in mind the original design, but adding modern touches, basically freshening it up.

Re : the concrete on the mall

It's possible to have colored concrete and still keep it clean. They make clear epoxy/acrylic/urethane based concrete sealers. I was looking at the sidewalks outside some of the new shops at River Park the other day, and they have a similar color and texture to the bulk of the pavement on the mall, but they seem to have been treated with a sealer, which will hopefully make them easier to clean up and retain their color over time.

Re: olive trees making a mess

Here's an idea - every October let's have a community day where we pick the olives from the tree! If we pick all or most of the olives, we won't have to worry about them making a mess on the concrete, no? I can see it now - Fulton Mall Olive Oil - at a store near you! (just kidding about the olive oil part)

regarding the color, I think that's a lost cause. It might have been a cool concept but the practicality didn't pan out. It doesn't look like it's supposed to after actually being put through use. It doesn't matter that it gets peed on or anything spilled on it, taking those things into account has to be part of the design. That was clearly not done. I say this after having seen the concrete cleaned a couple times now, and we're talking one guy spraying on cleaner and a guy behind him using a big steam cleaning device. After that cleaning, took at least a week, it didn't look much different at all but did seem "cleaner". Let's not forget that olive trees are pretty messy.

Good idea Joe. I think the new, although the application is different the concept is the same, Mustang and Camero are good examples of old styles brought back to life with new lines. I think a similar thing can be done in downtown. Keep it the way it is, but polish it up with new fresh lines. This means compromise on both ends. A dead tree must go.

Diablo

The concrete is not gray, it's actually dyed a tan color. Apparently we are preserving all of our history spilled sodas, olive stains, and yes even some urine. Thats why its hard to tell the color of the concrete, it needs a good cleaning.

I can't remember the exact color name, but I do know there are people on the DTA board that know the color of the concrete and the aggregate.

I've also heard that the wavy pattern is supposed to resemble some rice fields in some far off country (Indonesia I think). Supposedly the designer of the mall either saw a picture of them or had gone to this country on vacation. Either way, that is what they are supposed to represent.

I don't think it's overcompensation over what's been lost in the past, but over what might happen in the future. Some advocate removing the mall partially or entirely, and then on the other side others are just as focused on keeping every single thing as it always was, even dead trees. This has been going on for decades. I think both sides should come to an agreement (if that's possible) which might allow for some redesign of mall features and landscaping, but would restore many of the best features, and keep the mall as a mall. A lot of the concrete and infrastructure is in need of replacement as it is, so now would be a good time to do it. I think a redesign of the plaza outside the stadium, some new trees and lights, maybe even some new art and fountains (keeping what is already there of course) would be a good idea and could be done in a way that's respectful of the original design.

That's good stuff to know.

You think the changes are opposed so deeply because of what has been lost due to changes in the past? Now, it's a kind of overcompensation?

I can't see the plain gray concrete as being an artistic treasure, the exposed stone aggregate wavy pattern perhaps, but not the entire walkway. I say remember the pattern of exposed aggregate and re-embrace it in a new walkway.

Diablo

Becuase I've seen the plans several times and talked to the city staff and the Deputy Mayor about this and I take them at their word. There's a current effort to designate the mall a historic site and prevent any changes to the original design. This Sportstown project would have involved new decorative concrete (and possibly brick) pavement, new landscaping and lighting on the Fulton Mall. It would have maintained all of the existing fountains and art, and I think most of if not all of the trees. But the pavement would have changed and some people feel that the pavement and landscaping design are major and important works in mid century landscape design, and have made it clear that they vehemently oppose ANY changes or modifications to the mall. They wanted to get something done soon, so they punted on the portion of the project from the stadium to Van Ness.

Do you think that the changes were made (at that location) for the following reasons:

-less impact on active business area (not looking to disrupt business flow.)

-greater visual impact ('...oh THIS is nice too.')

-economy of work being done (clustered to where work is 'already going on,') (thereby containing area affected as well as focusing attention/couples it with already 'being improved area.')

?

The orginal plans called for it to extend all the way west to the stadium gate. However, when they presented it to the chamber of commerce group, they literally folded over that part of the drawing. The city says it's a funding issue and also due to the sensitive nature of making any changes to the mall. It seems like the section from the stadium gate to Van Ness however was the most in need of "fixing up" with new lighting and pavement, and the section they're actually tearing up was the least in need of such work.

I thought this was supposed to connect the two sports venues? From what I saw this is connecting L and Van Ness. Are they eventually going to finish Kern all the way to the ballpark and M down to Selland Arena?

Since it's going to be in the 60's this next week I'm going to go down and take look. I just can't visualize what this street is supposed to look like when it's done.

I had lunch downtown today and noticed that construction just began on Sportstown. It looks like the decorative pressed concrete crosswalks (which I think are only about six years old) were the first to go.

More pics here:
http://flickr.com/photos/jazzportraits/sets/72157603870435275/

Not much has been accomplished yet.
Old rich Van Ness hens getting jobs on a board with paychecks.
Checks that they don't really need.
A dozen dead stingrays.
Nothing really worth going to see.
Alot of grand schemes and illusions but nothing solid.
Great plans for expanding but nothing solid or done to fix old exhibits.
When it expires the public won't be fooled again by propaganda using a cute little girl and blue eyed elephant signs

Lets see recent bus trip old woman gets on with square cart full of dripping bottles and cans.
Bus driver folds up seat for her cart to fit and used wheelchair ramp to let her load and unload it.
People had to stand because seats were full.
The woman and the junk took up 4 seats.
She was not handicaped.
It was a cart of juck to recycle and a filty dripping health hazzard.
It was not a wheelchair.
Why is this allowed?
As I have said before they are buses not garbage trucks.
Now that the seniors can ride for free you have more bums hauling around bags of cans and bottles on the buses.

And, the city's evidently wasting Measure C dollars on this project. What a rip-off!!!!!

propositions 93, 94, etc.

Measure C

?

-back home, a long time I had to use Compound W.

(why do I get the feeling that living here?
I'm going to need Preparation H...?)

According to the article in today’s Bee, Measure C has fixed all of Fresno’s problems. So, stop saying bad things about the buses.

Today your bicycle, next week the Jetsons come to town.

more bike lanes.
that's all i have.

Done and forgot about; personally, this is like beating a dead horse to gitty-up. About two years ago I worked several months putting a feasible business plan package together that had a complete pro-forma for five buildings on Kern Street. After presenting the package to Scott Johnson (Acting Economic Development Director) and zero help from his office, plus exceptionally negative feedback from about a dozen local developers, I dropped the plan as a complete waste of time. I personally handed Mayor Autry a copy of the plan which included the profit producing pro-formas. Here is a link to an overview of the project: http://centraltransit.com/Kern%20Street%20project.htm This link has been greatly reduced in size from the Kern Street Business Package since it doesn’t have that much to do with the Central Transit website. The Kern Street project was a way to generate an income and it just didn’t work out for me.

The interesting thing about the package (that was detailed enough to include building contractor bids for remodeling) was to convert the voters office in the Del Webb parking annex into a Rite Aid or Walgreen. Convert the Virginia Hotel into a “period’ classic hotel (that generated a nice profit with 70% occupancy – city wide average is 69%). Convert the old Gottschalks building into a three story indoor mall specializing in Valley produce items, like wine, breads, fruit and other items. And the Berkeley building was proposed as a two story sports eatery serving more than just one franchise type of food with a roof patio for game days.

For all of the effort of working on this project (four months full time at 10 to 14 hour days) that would benefit the City of Fresno, I was completely ignored. Scott’s comment was: “Where’s your money.” Because I was working on those projects without funding all of my time was wasted and treated by the City officials as either an idiot or a moron.

Well, the education of dealing with the local politicians was valuable. The privatized transit project, BTW, is moving forward exceptionally well. Why? Because it requires money from out of the area, legislation from Sacramento and enthusiasm for environmentally sustainable projects from folks in the Bay Area.

Incidentally, the JPods PRT (Personal Rapid Transit) system mentioned on the link is a prototype using current roller coaster technology. The money exists to build such a “New Technology” transit project. The Measure C “New Tech” fund could build this system project and still have half of the funds allocated; left in the fund. The local politicians are completely oblivious to any of this NEW technology, even though Fresno voters passed this fund to be used specifically for this type of project.

This mantra needs to be repeated: “There will be no revitalization of Downtown Fresno without resolving the mobility issue.”

that there is an execellent question Mr. Moore.
having always thought of Kern Street as a beautiful example of what all downtown streets could look like if we applied ourselves...the "fixation" with tearing it up -first the river now this- just seems BIZARRE.
I'm downtown everyday and I can honestly say that with the exception of Tulare near the Couthouse and Van Ness by Arte Americas virtually ANY other street could benefit from some big bucks improvement.
Really, what is this obsession with Kern Street?

I'd like to know how much money the city spent on the existing Kern Street improvments that are there right now. They can't be more than 10 or 12 years old. I'm talking about the new sidewalks, landscaping, enhanced pressed concrete crosswalks, etc. Does anyone have that info?

According to Rhonda Jorn Public Affairs Manager for Mayor Autry every property and business owner was able to comment on the proposal. But that doesn't include the general public who will be footing the actual bill. The one public-noticed meeting was this past Monday January 28th at the Fresno Historical Society. Construction is set for ten days following that meeting making it seem like it was pretty much a done deal anyway. The role of the Historic Preservation Commission is to make sure there would be no negative impact on the historic resources near by. Their role is not say whether it is a good project , if it is tax money well spent, or if Kern st. even needed to be remodeled in the first place. That is the general public's decision and we were kept out of the loop on this for the most part.
The construction is scheduled to be finished by opening day of the Fresno Grizzlies April 11th.

Okay... SF it is...

There is an old saying in missionary and church circles.
'...Never use the Devils tools to get the Lord's work done.'

Usually it has to do with the issue of compromise, personal standards, and not getting involved with stuff that could cause the situation to unravel later, due to ethical shortcuts in the foundation.

There are other sayings as well,
(Being a German?
'-If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right, and if it's done right the first time, you don't have to tear it all out and re-do it again...')

Couple that with the Mob saying:
'If you lie down with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas.'

Maybe it's just one of those things, that, as an adult, (I suppose I'm an adult now, I'm in my mid forties...) I have learned to traffic in.

I in no way think Democracy is Naieve.
I just don't see it happening much, anymore, and don't think a lot of people really want it, (despite the lip service.)

I am totally stoked that there are (other) people in this town who believe in a democratic process, and ascribe (and walk,) in a matter that involves hearing all voices, considering other perspectives, and moving along with a core of trust.
--And I want to believe (very much,) that good triumphs over evil... (or that trust, and truth will win over 'fair-weather' 'situational ethics,' and words from folks that, makes you think...
'why do I feel like I'm being sold a repainted reeeeeeally old Ford Taurus that has an odometer that has rolled over at least twice, and what's that antifreeze smell???'

There's deeper stuff, that I'm wrestling with on this.

1. It's kind of this:
-Listen to the hard core right, with their 'scorched earth,' volume up on 11, God-Guns-Guts, and G notes mindset, ---and (usually) folks sort of see them as a cartoon, but not let it get too far. (Do I actually have two of Rush Limbaugh's earlier books? Sure. Have I read them? Sure. Do I see his points on stuff, yep, Do I agree with him and am I a dittohead? Oh heck no.

But, (and this is the kicker)
Listen to the hard core left.
They get presented in movies and such as these sweet tree hugging aging hippies who wouldn't harm a fly, are all about the VW microbus and preserving the view, SOMEHOW have come to be synonomous with Mayberry RFD, (though I have a hard time imagining Aunt Bea sittin on the front porch, puffing on dubage, listening to Toots and the Maytals, (or even Workingman's Dead.) ---Barney, MAYBE...

But for all the windowdressing of how 'peace-love-community' the far left extreme is: ---Having hung with them (initially) out here for the first year plus, --I see the same mindset, attitudes, and occasional actions as the rabit right, -just for a different set of interests.

I'm starting to believe Professional Wrestling is real, thanks to Fresno.

What I don't see?
People wishing to sit down and look at real facts, consider genuine logic,
genuine responsibility for words and actions,
and the letting go of a lot of sentiment to make effective and positive change.
(as well as good decisions regarding all sorts of stuff, ---including landscape and urban planning.)
(Have they started human sacrifices to the Fulton Mall yet? (I mean, to the white gods of the fifties?.)

THAT's what I'm getting at with the 'self-interested,' aspect, it's not even nostalgia anymore, -becasue it's current life as an ideology.
(That to me is WILD.)

2. It's like there are two very deeper parts of Fresno's psyche that play into this.
A. ---Don't believe everything you say, -because in the end it's all 'Just Fresno,' anyway, (and folks think that nothing is really ever going to change.)
B. ---And, along with this admitting that, for all the hoopla and screaming about one thing or another?
The bottom line is a firm understanding that: There are powers that be (and I'm not talking metaphysical, I'm talking wealth and pull,) that can buy and sell right and wrong, ---and will do things regardless of ethics and outcome.

3. ---Couple that with folks really don't WANT it to change.

What I mean by 'don't want it to change.'

I think the reason why people are so into the extremes out here (politically, socially, religious, etc...) is because it's almost like a vacation from the reality.
-They get to go hog-wild on one issue or another, on one political stance or social concern or another ----and THAT's as far as it goes.
It's basically dressing up, working up into a snit, but still coming back to the same situation at the end of the day and not really doing anything.
---All the energy has been exerted, there's been stress relief, and the hollering and flatulence really made one helluva show...
-But at the end, the tribes have been returned to, and nobody wants stuff to change too much.

(You find this in situations of unhealthy families, such as when somebody is a stoner or an alchoholic.
-They'll complain about so and so being a lush, and a good-fer-nothing, ---so the person goes, gets help, dries out, and now is a viable part of the structure...
---and then things fall apart, -the whole thing goes south.
Why?
Well, somebody actually went and 'did something,' -and it was a healthy something, and NOW they're a force to be reckoned with (for good or bad,) because they are no longer in a chem. induced fog...
-But that throws everybody else off kilter, ---as (before,) when the individual was basically stoned, they werent' really part of the equation, and everybody knew how to 'deal with them,'
-?But put them into the mix?

-and now EVERYBODY else has to change, everybody else has to DEAL with not just 'the new' person who is back from la-la-land, --but now has to deal with their own part of the interractions.
-Believe it or not, it's not unusual for people coming out of severely screwed up situations (such as unhealthy life)
to deliberately go back INTO them,
---because, in a very real sense, -it's easier. (Though, in the long run, it's devestating.)
'The devil you know vs. the devil you don't.'

What I find, with some of these issue,(community issues in Fresno, social issues in fresno, political ones, racial ones?)

As much as people complain and are all worked in a froth over 'the other side,' of things, ---In fact, they desperately need 'the opposite side,' to have -even to exist.
---So much so, that if, everything is restored to 'healthy,' and to functional (vs. dysfunctional,) ---Nobody seems to know what to do, and they'll run out and find some new monster to be afraid of and deal with.

-That means, Fresno is going to always want another town to piss on.
-Clovis is always gonna want Fresno to feel superior too.
-Fresno is always going to need to accentuate it's 'victim,' status among the rest of California, (because it makes us 'right and virtuous,' (because we've had it so bad...)
--IN a very real sense?
-Everybody who screams and yells about 'all them damn Mexicans,' is going to need them to contribute to their life (way more than trimming lawns.)
-The hippies and yippies are going to need 'the establishment,' to get all pissed at, and find reasons to boycott and become empowered and compress their beliefs into diamonds...
-And the Far Right Wing are going to need Everybody else to look at and blame everything else on, (including 'God's Wrath') because it gives them reason to be righteous, and gives them a chance to vent their spleens, bladders, and lower GI tracts, --'cause they screwed things up (too) and simply don't want the responsibility of fixing it.

NOBODY WANTS TO FACE THIS... LETS JUST ALL GO GET DRUNK INSTEAD, 'K?

4. ---Who makes out in the deal?
The ones who set the game,
sell tickets to see the fight,
provide refreshments,
legal assistance, and medical services,
--and who understand that there will 'always be this twisted need to have these battles raging, simply to make life 4 hours from anywhere more interesting.'

The people who make out in this deal, and who are calling the shots?
Are not the prospectors with the gleam in their eye,
It's the guy who's going to sell the miracle shovel,
the dowsing rods,
and (hopefully,) the good solid mule...
NOTHING has changed in that respect... NOTHING.

(At this point Jag thinks I've gone completely over to cynicism and the dark side,,, and have thrown God and Grace out the window... buck up, sir, -such is not the case.)

I think the mass opinion really is what I stated above.

5. -People look at the problems, want to register a response to them, and want things 'dealt with,' ---but really don't want to go through what's required to 'make stuff better,' ----maybe because they've fabricated and seen such paegentry, that they don't really BELIEVE it can be better.

It was like, a church I was sitting in on Sunday.
Pastor is talking about how folks in this church really aren't poor, don't know poor people, and (because their neighborhoods are wealthy,) often don't even go to where poor folks are (He said that they usually don't even go below Hearndon,)
'...You need to understand that there are other people out there,
you need to get out of this 'bettering the joneses,
and 'wanting more,' mindset,
-you need to go down to the Poverello House and the rescue mission,
---in fact coming up soon we're sending a team over to China...'

I'm sitting there thinking..
'Hey this train is finally going somewhere, the North Part of Fresno is finally going to realize that they have a spiritual responsibility to care for the middle and south and west parts,'
-but, before it became 'too real?,'
---they say 'go to the Pov,' (which, like, hardly anybody in the place will get caught dead going to, even to visit, to be honest,,,)

---and then they're headed off to a foreign country to help the Chinese.
(Blew my mind... no recognition of the 'house church,' movement that has been massive in the Pacific Rim, NOR that that area of the world is actually so spiritually enriched,
-that they are sending missionaries out to other countries (including the US) to help them find their way back to a real and practical life with God.)

But notice the pattern:
-Recognize that there is something amiss,
-Speak of how there needs to be change,
-Bring up an example that's sort of relevant, but becomes more theory and straw-man
-Then put it into 'the exotic,' in terms of solution (vs) practical.
-Folks 'feel relieved,' --but life stays THE SAME.

If folks were told
'...We need to find communities that we can drive to within three minutes of here, of families and such that are right down the road, and really care for them...'
I think things would be much better dealt with, and would be more effective,
---but,
---at the same time?
There is the added weight and responsibility of caring for somebody you're going to see every day, who is going to need more care and help
-and who is NOT going to be separated by you the other 350 days of the year by a trans-pacific flight.

Get it?

(Now, as a disclaimer? This church does have involvements with poorer churches and poorer areas of the city, and they do (literally,) 'go down to help.'
---but the whole 'us and them,' aspect of it all is waaaaay too real, and a lot of people from that section of town (NorfFresno) have never stepped a toe over the line of Bullard, 'because it's not safe.')

6. The people who are planning stuff understand all this.
(And, historically speaking? Find me an empire or a situation where the wealthy DO NOT use 'shanty-town,' as a place to go relieve themselves in all sorts of ways, -even if it's civic 'improvements,' (Again, when the city speaks of 'downtown,' ---they talk as if nobody lives there, (they don't even see the poor.)

The planners (any planners, even the benevolent ones,)
Undertsnd that Fresno really doesn't want the responsibility of 'itself.'

It knows that other Fresnans, for the most part, So long as their own little worlds aren't affected,
---will nod and agree to anything, -so long as their own plans aren't affected.

7. What that means?

It's not that this project (or any other,) was hustled and snuck in under the radar, (drama-drama-drama)

----it's that the people who get stuff done, (who have the power to,) know that they can walk in certain doors and not be bothered, and the people there don't want to be bothered either.
Nobody 'snuck anything in.' There were no guards asleep at the switch.
They simply did what they felt like, and folks were either
a.) unaware,
or
b.) had no real interest.

These are the screen doors in this submarine, Andy.

It's not that there are folks out there who don't believe (and try to live what they believe) in a religious, or civic, social, and practical sense.
(No, folks like you and your crew definitely exist, and I'm grateful that you take the time to go after this sort of stuff, seriously, I do what I can in my community as well.)

It's that,
well,
going about it 'the right way,' stands like the last centre section of the St. Francis Dam, (after the rupture.)
It's there, trying to do it's job, and it towers hundreds of feet above everything else,
-but all around it? instead of seriously effective and interconnected structure and method?
-Is the emptiness and business of 'yeah, that's nice, but I got other stuff to care about.'
--and the current flowing around 'the right way,' is quite strong, friend, even if it looks like 'thin air.'

8. I'm convinced, that Fresno (over all,) doesn't really want it any other way.

They don't want to deal with downtown, with the mall, with the poor, with public health,
-They don't want to learn Spanish, they don't want to 'like,' anything too ethnic.
They want to tell jokes about 'Armenians in Business being just like Jews' (---when they don't really even know any Jews...)
They want what they want,
and will build it where they feel like doing so.

And woe to the folks who REALLY start initiating change,
who drink the coolaid,
-or who believe too deeply in some civic-koom-ba-yah, about ANYTHING in this place.
They talk their extrmeties and severities of stance ---as well as how to 'fix stuff,'
-but in the end?
It's out of sight, out of mind, the 'causes,' are little more than an emotional vacation, and they just don't want to deal with stuff and change.
(This is why there are so few people involved, compared to 'how many live here.')

Find a way to work with that?
This oyster's been shucked, the pearl is bound to be gorgeous,
and
This town will be top of the charts in EVERYTHING good.

Until we successfully get that bull by the horns,
You're looking at 'ChinaTown' sequels one after the other.

I'm not telling you to 'forget about it, Jake.'
Nope, not by a long shot.

But in the immortal words of St. Clint of the Eastwoods?
I ain't just gonna sit here, let the situation piss down our backs, and just tell you 'it's raining,' either.

For God's little 'half -acre?'
-This is one crooked mile.

-Pick your battles wisely,
-Don't forget 'why,' you do what you do.
-Don't think, because the odds are overwhelming, and that things are seemingly cast in stone, ---that stone can't flow.
-Remember: 'God don't like ugly.'
-Believe that it's better to have callouses on your hands, than to be sitting as a fat lazy bastard on the couch.
-Don't expect heaven to be here, when it's there
-and as always?
Love to the Dr. and girls.

And remember:
The only thing faster than the speed of light?
Is the Darkness fleeing from it.

(holds up lighter)
-'Freeeee-biirrrrrd.'

-you're in my prayers

-Eric

I completely agree with Andy's idea of moving this to Inyo St. It is closer to Selland Arena and will lead you to the Ball Park. The improvements that were made on Kern St are already paying dividends. Lets not ruin what is working on Kern.

I unlike Andy don't mind the Disney-esque feel to it, it's hard to do something like a "walk of fame" without being a little cheesy.

I guess what I want the most is for our local officials to see what has worked for us (Kern) and apply it to other areas. I don't want them to ignore what has worked and to try to reinvent the wheel each time someone new comes into office. Otherwise we'll keep sinking money into a bottom-less pit.

Kern St is a good example of how it should be done. I just want City Hall to realize that.

Abe Lopez

"Andy Hansen-Smith likes the NY Giants xo xo xo' in it with a stick.." As long as you change the NY to SF, I am fine with it ;)
There was a proposal for a Transit Oriented Development (T.O.D.) complete with the first of at least two public discussion sessions this past Wednesday. I heard about it on three sources: MindHub, LateUpdate and The Fresno Bee. I did attend and heard the presentation and asked questions etc. There were some city officials there ( Councilman Dages, a city planner, affordable housing representative, John Downs from FAX)) that questions were asked of etc. The project was not universally loved but the majority appeared to like the idea. To me this seems transparent and what a democracy does. I will be very surprised the project doesn't get built.
I am on a downtown task force that meets every other week to discuss improving the downtown area. Among the attendees are city officials like Jon Ruiz and Jeff Eben and several city planners. When we talked about where to start on downtown we knew we needed to focus somewhere because the huge size of the downtown. When Kern St. was brought
up nobody wanted to mess with it because it was already in good shape and was an example of what we would like the rest of downtown to look like.
If Autry's office wanted to make this known they had plenty of chances. Your point that they have figured this is the only way to get things done in Fresno may be true but they could have FIRST started with a good idea first and then seen if people would be in favor of it. The riverwalk had a $65 million price tag to go with it. The Trump deal had the city on the hook for assembling several properties through eminent domain to build a gated community that most of Fresno and especially the West side would not be able to participate in. They went as far as blocking the historic Kearney Blvd. from public use as it went through Running Horse.
If Mayor Autry had a good idea, allowed the public to discuss the pros and cons of it and it still didn't get done, well that is democracy. Shoving it through under the radar may get it done but it it isn't democracy and it usually doesn't mean a quality project was built either.

the street that needs fixing around there is 'H St'

like the useless Street Light on H next the the Fresno Hotel, those pot holes or man hole covers on H next to the Stadium, those warehouses on H and especially H and Monetary Street crossing, it needs the $750,000 to build a barracks type shelter for that homeless shanty town encampment that lives under the overpass, a Cal-trans overpass just does not work as a homeless shelter but the City of Fresno has been passing off the job of sheltering the homeless to Cal-Trans, Maybe the $750,000 should be used to build another overpass for homeless people to pitch tents under.

but when it comes down to 'it's stupid, it's ugly, it's a waste of money, and it's tearing up a perfectly good street, doing something that makes no sense with it...'

those, dear hyphenator are all highly subjective opinions of it... (I mean, they're all true, -but in the end? There is no accounting for taste...)

Strangely enough, though I initially balked at 'riverwalk,' in all it's discussion?
After I found out it was basically a long fountain and pool designed by Paul Saito?
I was like... 'nuts!'
---because his stuff rocks, and if there is anybody who could pull it off, it would be him...
So... yeah, even though I firmly believed in the reasons why it was not a good idea,
---had I NOT known about it, and it was just done?
I'm sure it would have been gorgeous... (Considering it was him? I kinda sorta wish they had just gone and did it.)

I'm going for the not-so-obvious aspect of it.

There is all this talk of how so much gets done here in town by sweetheart deals and clandestine situations...
Govt. investigations regarding cornered markets and land use, (etc.)
you'd think they were filming XFiles episodes in Fresburg everyother week...

It would seem, the ONLY way that stuff gets done here?
-Is to basically, quietly, buy something up, work out your design, --and then build it in the middle of the night...
(I distinctly remember one of my earliest arguements on Fresno Famous was regarding the naming of 'Vagabond Lofts,' ---with a seriously disgruntled lady who was from here...
--And how did that work out?
Successful, great place, --and Reza's group is building more stuff.

But... Again, it would seem to be less 'age of aquarius,' in terms of group planning and carrying out of the scheme,
---and more good old solid american masterminding and treachery.

I think, in all honesty, Fresno is too argumentative to even discuss an idea...
Look at Fulton Mall!?
-Find any one of a NUMBER of reliable local subjects that are guaranteed echo-and corpralalia, and it's one giant turrets-esque volley of rounds, from one end to the other.

My point?
-It could have been something so plain as the face on your nose common sense
'...this is a good idea, everybody should be on board with this, even a complete idiot can see that this is a good idea...'
--and somebody would have freaked and picketted the thing...

'...hey, cows, like grass, we need cows, cows give us milk, lets put our cows on the grass, have fresh milk, and feed kids milk, and give the cow-poop to gardeners... -everybody wins.'
'...oh, no no no no... you aren't putting cows in my neighborhood, you aren't giving free milk in my neighborhood, you aren't feeding them my grass, besides cows are both black AND white... and we can't have that, no-sir...'
'...then you got yer brown cows...'
-and don't forget yer miniature horses, what the hell is THAT all about.'

(silly argument, but still, considering the situation.)

I'm going with the initial assertion,
(and will back down, ONLY if provoked,
or,
or..
if I get bored and go find something else to do,
-like sleep...)

Fresnans don't WANT to deal with each other (on a grande scale.)
They may have done this to be sneaky?
They may have done this out of innocence, (and just not wanted to see it die a slow painful debate death...)

Either way?
The reality is this:
They know two things:
-Fresnans will argue over how blue the sky is, and then argue how dark outside it is (because they can't argue over the blue sky, because they can't see it.)

-And if you want to get shit done? (Like ANYTHING?)
DON'T involve too many folks... (It's easier to do something and apologize later, -than to ask everybody's opinion on the outset...)

Do I think 'Sportswalk,' is a good idea?
...well, I like palm trees.
...but I really dislike most sports, and the ones I do like, I don't think they're going to put any placque's up for, (they closed my damn dirttrack mid-season last summer, fer cryin' in the sink...)
I'm just eternally bitter over that...

(though when they DO pour the cement?
I'm going to write '...Andy Hansen-Smith likes the NY Giants xo xo xo' in it with a stick...

(so there.)

OOTV said "It's not that the project is too much a bone of contention, it's that the very process of discussion and 'community decison,' is the bone of contention."
The project IS the bone of contention. It is a so-so idea placed in the one decent street downtown. Stick it on Inyo St. and I would be in favor of it. Sports-Alley: Not exactly a great idea in that it has a Disneyland-esque feel to it but good enough.
The fact that nobody outside Mayor Autry's office knew about until recently sure doesn't help people want to support it. The riverwalk was poor idea and was squashed like it should have been. That is not "Fresno not talking to each other". That is Fresno knowing something that stinks and stopping it. I think most of Fresno will hate this idea as well and not because " they had meeting and nobody showed up" . I think your assumption is correct that they did pull a fast one on the folks of Fresno. That doesn't make it a good project and it doesn't take downtown one step forward but a huge step back.

There have been some very LOUD failures and projects that got floated out, stomped loudly, and in the end? scuttled.

That this project is due to take place, and bulldozers are standing by, (with no way, seemingly to stop it,) does not surprise me at all.

Fresno simply can't talk to each other.
It doesn't want to.
It's not that the project is too much a bone of contention, it's that the very process of discussion and 'community decison,' is the bone of contention.

The folks who are doing this? I think know that.

Now, what has not been stated?

There were (apparently,) meetings and the subject came up in a forum that anybody was allowed to go to... it's just that nobody went.

So... yah.

Did they pull a fast one?
Maybe.
I think they more just read the currents right.

And the currents were '...these folks are so self-absorbed with their own worlds and projects, --if we make a big deal? It will never work, and will die in debate...

So we walk in, make our gestures, open the door, see if anybody shows up, and if not, -proceed.

But the reason why it was not '...hey everybody, what do you think?'
-was because everybody WOULD bounce back and forth on it till kingdom come, -and nothing would get accomplished.

This appears to be a town where, you go about your business, get yer backers, do what it is that you want to do, --and then make a fuss about it later, (if you're smart,) -otherwise?
Painting the color of your downstairs bathroom will become fodder for endless opinion...

It DOES say a lot.
Feathers will be ruffled...
But that's just the way business is done.
(You simply cannot have a 'communal,' interraction and decision 'think tank,' in an environment this caustic...
Nope.

I don't think people were waiting for dirt to be turned to voice their disagreement with the project. I had heard of the project, but never saw any concepts or renderings. Hell, the new library is still in the planning stages and it was already in the Fresno Bee, yesterday!

But it does seem a bit odd that the City really reached out to the public when it was about the "riverwalk", but not so much on this. Sure they had the meetings with the business owners (of which I am not) and the historic society (also not a part of), but I don't remember any "outreaches" to the general public, like they have had for other projects. Of course my memory isn't exactly a steal trap.

Also, I'll say it once more, I don't hate the idea. But when you have sidewalks with potholes (in front of Mezcal) cement being lifted by tree roots (all over the mall) and an absolutely horrendous entry to your city from a major state freeway (Ventura and 99) I'm thinking maybe, just maybe, there are better uses for the money than a "Walk of Fame". But what do I know, I'm just a taxpayer.

Lack of vision. There needs to be one big plan that everyone votes on. How will this sports alley tie into any bigger plan of the city?

Make a really big plan for the develoment of downtown, or set of plans. Many visions, and put together something great. Establish a cost estimte, and work on the plan in phases. Who cares if there are 50 phases set over 10 years as long as we're working toward a big vision everyone in the community likes, and more importantly agrees to pay for.

I am working on putting together a small group of professionals who know how to plan. I am trying to get them to start coming to he meetings (we all have busy lives). Everything must be assessed from transportation to parks and recreation and a big plan formed geared towards bringing it all up as a whole even if by pieces towads a big plan. Not this piece meal hodge podge that seems to be going on.

but that's just me...

Diablo

I'd say this whole thing is about vision, just a vision that most on Mind Hub seem to disagree with. No one seems to have brought these issues up when the city held their "public meetings." Now that dirt is going to be moved, cue the uproar. The city should've done a better job of noticing this whole thing. The fact that Jerry Duncan didn't know about it says a lot. What it says, I don't know.

Like I said on mindhub, i don't hate the idea.

Its just money could be better spent on other projects downtown. Kern St. is already a success story (in an area where success is hard to come by). It is slowly turning into a nice place to hang out while at work. Why not take what worked on Kern St and apply them to other parts of Downtown. Why uproot things that have obviously worked and start over. It just doesn't make sense.

Again, I don't hate the idea. In fact if they took this money and did something like a "Sports Town" theme to the Kern St entrance of the stadium, that would be AWESOME! But don't throw away all the efforts along Kern St that are working.

Abe

Vision.
It seems like nobody has any vision.