please note:
I did not fire at Fresno Magazine... (I think called it highly successful at what it does,)
I did not fire at Imagine... (think I just looked at it for the first time the other day in the doctors waiting room, in fact.)

-I do actually find any of the above magazines skilled at what they are meant to do, might even consider some adspace, as I do stuff that some of them folks could afford (talking about Fresno or Imagine... not interested in advertising in Undercurrent at this time... we just think too differently.)

(I didn't even read the Boyington Article, never claimed to, I simply understand marketing and layout...

-what I do read (like a fiend?)
PASTE
the NEW YORKER (preserves my sanity.)
(varying) Automotive mags
(varying) Aviation mags
-tons of stuff sent me regarding woodworking and bicycles

-the occasional 'conspiracy,' or 'holistic health-politics' rag,
when I want to be terrified and hide indoors, waiting for the black helicopters / hard core right winged / or granola chomping beer guzzling left -to come and get me... (or all of the above.)

Oh yeah, and the NASW Journal.

-SOMETIMES Martha Stewarts 'Living,'
(for when I want to look around my place, shake my head in disgust, and try to 'do something,' with my sofa... (no luck as yet.)

I also like Skateboard mags,(Thrasher being one,)

LOVE Architectual Digest

-and even read 'Cosmo,' on occasion
(I can't really tell you why, but they're so much more interesting than all that lame stuff you read in 'Mens Journal, FHM, Maxim, or Stuff,' or whatever else there is out there that has some poor girl with huge McGuffies wrapped around the fender of a Ferrari or all sweatied up on gym equipment...
(I'm a guy, WHY would I want to read a bunch of stuff on GUYS and what GUYS think? (duh, I'm a guy...)
-Women are so much more interesting anyway...
(besides, I think the editors of Cosmo know that men read it... I think they're deliberately giving us bad info, just to mess with our heads...(no, the raw fruit and stilletto heels didn't work, YES I wound up in the E.R. and NO I don't want to talk about it..)

Sometimes I read 'Jane' because I worked on it for a while, (well that and my sister-in-law shoots for them occasionally.)
Same for Redbook or Ladies Home Journal...
(Their Recipies aren't so bad either...)

Intersection is also kind of interesting.

I like to sprinkle Holy Water on 'Modern Witch,' just to watch the type sizzle and dissolve...
-kidding, I'm KIDDING

but, yes...

If my life depended upon writing a complete sentence?

-Depending upon how you look at it:
-I'd have one Loooooooong life,
-ord'a died sometime ago...

-Thanks for the clarity on it being Imagine (vs) Fresno.

I agree, it could have been about Desi Arnaz, Sid Vicious, or Fred Flintstone, ---it's all about a human interest connection to Fresno...
I simply outlined how I'd expect the article to be handled by each mag, (which, I think was accurate.)

Maybe an article on all the odd musician/actors/artists who have come from or been through Fresno...
maybe that would be interesting...?

nah...

There is someone whom I'm trying to impress with my cooking skills...
-maybe it's time for 'Gourmet.'

or simply
'the Idiots Guide to making Dinner.'

Those magazines are not worth the time to fact check. hehe.
Both magazines look about the same. the quality of both of them are about the same, practically the same advertisements.

Yes the Boyington article was completely out of place for that "lifestyle magazine".

glad you laughed but Has anyone ever had to save there life with a complete sentence?

I think it's terribly funny AntiMusick (who can not seem to write a complete sentence to save his life) and Tommy_Tower both attack Fresno Magazine about the Gregory "Pappy" Boyington article...and that article was NOT in Fresno Magazine! The Boyington article was in Imagine Magazine (also printed in and about Fresno)! True, Fresno Magazine is not such a hot publication, but if you are going to slam it---fire at it with with the correct ammunition (i.e. complaining about articles that were actually published in it).

As for the Boyington article, for what it was (a short piece discussing a famous person with a Fresno connection), I think it did what it was supposed to do. It made people (such as Out of the Void) aware that he HAD a Fresno connection at all and also gave a little more insite to his life other than being the inspiration for the popular (but highly fictionalized) "Baa Baa Black Sheep" / "Black Sheep Squadron" TV show. Sure, Boyington's life was very rich and could easily have filled the whole magazine (or several issues), but in a magazine like Imagine (which bills itself as a "lifestyle" magazine), such an article would have been completely out of place. Obviously you are far more aware of Boyington's life than the average casual reader--why not write your own article? At least with the Imagine magazine article you actually READ it (so bravo to you for at least having SOME idea of what you were ranting about--albeit the wrong publication)...which I guess says something about Fresno Magazine--that it's not even readable or memorable.

Okay AntiMusick and Out of the Void, fire away (at Fresno Magazine or Imagine or both) with round 2 when you are ready---but this time, instead of shooting off at the mouth (or fingers) as you both usually do, please GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT FIRST!

re: 'undercurrent as a glossy mag.'

I've read 'Fresno,'
-and I've often read local 'best foot forward,' municipal or area mags for years.
-They're pretty common, most major, (and minor) cities have them, they serve their purpose well, (as all mags and media are, are fueled by advertising, and are glossy and 'high end,' for a reason.
They're kind of like 'yearbooks.'

They are marketed towards professionals, often have upper end advertisers,
-and do, in fact cater to people who tend to be 'high-society,' or more 'cultured,' (Read: Porsche Drivers (not so much) beat up old Taurus Drivers.)
-There is NOTHING wrong with this, and it's simply focussing and gearing the conversation between consumers and providers on a mid to upper financial class level.
In the end? They get recycled just like 'the Bee,' 'HotRod,' 'Hustler,' or 'The Anarchists sewing and ballistics Weekly Journal: (with new ways to cook lentils.)'

I've (occasionally,) read Undercurrent, as well and get their thrust and aim in terms of commentary and feel it's targeted just as much at the genre of the public that they are looking to reach.

What I think would be funny, (as an experiment,) would be to see Undercurrent repackaged and presented as a 'glossy,' -with the same overtones and imagery used.

-People would think it was a parody.
There is NO WAY it's present readership would see it going 'FRESNO,' as a good thing,
-Folks would immediately start accusing the Undercurrent of 'selling out,' and going 'main stream,' if it changed it's stance and image away from 'underground arts/cause oriented,' -and away from a 'people's news,' image and format.
---use of coated stock (glossy,) heavyweight paper (vs newsprint) would incur rancor, and I hope it doesn't choose to do so...

Truth be told?
As much as either mag will have it's supporters and are claiming 'free speech, we're letting people express their tastes and views (via voting or whatever,)
-BOTH are targeted,
(Got it? TARGETED, -and they are supposed to be, it's simply proper marketing.)

---and if EITHER started to look like the other? readership would drop.

-Undercurrent readers would start screaming sell-out (like they did when Jarah sold FresFam,)
(-which actually, in terms of Fresno Famous, I find hysterical, because FresnFam is built on people's comments and dialogue (not image,)
-hellloooooo?!

---(Some idiots just don't get that they have the ability to build it anyway they want each time they go to enter a comment or subject,
-but they're too crippled by their own prejudices to understand that ANYBODY can CREATE this Site,
and that it is, in fact CREATED each time a person bothers to post or comment on a post.)

If ANYTHING is 'authentically fresno,' about the situation, it's somebody getting all bent out of shape that somebody 'said' anything,
RATHER than somebody forming their own ideas, walking up next to what they agree or disagree with, and nailing them up for others to see as well...

-(Seriously, think about it, -is the answer that everybody just says what everybody else wants to hear?
Does NOBODY have a new idea or even a stance or opinion on something that is their own, and perhaps off the beaten path and company line of their 'tribes?'

And 'FRESNO' readers would probably be 'a little concerned,' if a single article (or comment,) was presented in the manner of Undercurrent's often 'provocative,' (IE: provoking, damn near slanderous) style.

People who pick up a copy of 'FRESNO,' open to a page,
and see pictures of themselves or their friends at a fundraiser look, smile, and think 'that was a nice time,-and a ton of bucks were raised for a good cause' (Childrens hospital (etc.)
They also see slick ads for who can help them remodel a kitchen, or what house they may want to (if only dream of,) buying.
Nothing wrong with that.

People pick up 'Undercurrent,' read articles that come across as a primer on graffitti, or (If I recall correctly) the virtues of Hugo Chavez? -and expect a finger in the eye for one social cause or another, and want a bunch of 'relevant,' social discussion...
(I don't think you're going to find any ads for the local Porsche Dealer in Undercurrent, -maybe they would be welcomed, maybe not...
look at how the ads are received here on Fresno Famous, and how people pissed and moaned when they started -citing 'the end,' of this site...)

My only concern in any of this?
(Though I've been interested in Pappy Boyington since a kid, and had NO idea he was involved with Fresno until this post.)

-Nobody should pick up either mag. and think 'This is what Fresno is like,' and expect a completely accurate picture.

-First off: ALL media functions, to an extent on adspace and expected 'focus,' on subjects that people want to read (vs reading in 'other,' media...
Both 'Undercurrent' and 'FRESNO' are good examples of particular crossections of (varying) Fresno Society,
--and honestly, depict people and views who passionately traffic in that crossection, and choose that crossection to be a part of.
(Upper Mid to Upper Class 'high-end,' types
and/or
'street level socio-politico's

-I pick up a copy of FRESNO with an article on Pappy Boyington?
I expect to see a couple of nice photos of the surviving family, maybe a pseudo-hand tinted shot or two of him by a Corsair, as well as maybe some pictures of his house,
-with a few interesting asides as to where in Fresno he would go...
-that's it, nothing further, and that's fine....

-I pick up a copy of 'Undercurrent,' with an article of Pappy Boyington?
I expect to find a lot of comments about his life from a more 'troubled,' side,
-remarks made about his tie-in to local interment camps,
-perhaps his secret political leanings,
or that he was wanting socialized medicine and tequila in old-folks-homes,
was actually in favor of peace over war,
or something...
(that and see ads for local peacegroups and hemp shops.)
NOTE: NONE OF THIS IS (on Boyington,) PROBABLY TRUE...
I'M JUST CONSTRUCTING A PURE NONESENSE 'HYPOTHETICAL' BASED UPON THE 'TYPES,' OF SUBJECT MATTER AND THRUST I'VE SEEN IN EITHER PUBLICATION....

btw:
YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PAPPY BOYINGTON?
-READ SOMETHING LIKE 'FLIGHT JOURNAL,'
-then go look at his pilot reports,
perhaps his own diary, and then talk to his family and neighbors and former co-workers...
(I daresay, that, in either Mag?.
-he's little more than a 'flavoring,' and tidbit for what the greater focus of the mag. is actually about...)

What really should be noted?

Extremes in any crossection, though rare to begin with, -and vaunted? (as being heroes?)
Aren't really genuinely found nor ascribed to by either group, and both lifestyles are kind of 'goals,' and 'ideals,' that a LOT of people 'read about,' and 'hang with,'

YES, there are folks who read 'Fresno,' who have more money than god, and 'appear,' to live in a 'gap' ad...
(but they put their custom shirts on one leg at a time like the rest of us..)

-and YES there are people who read 'Undercurrent,' who will happily get themselves arrested for the sake of a tree or some cause, who are so lost in an idealism that they barely make sense and have all the subtlty of a suicide-bomber...

--but MOST folks involved are (at best) percentages of 'real' and 'wish they were real,' in terms of actual life experience.
That's just people.
That's always going to be people.
(Call them what you want, but recognize your own prejudice in the choice of tags:
negative? they're 'posers and wanna-bees,'
or a positive sense, they're 'ascribing,' 'weekenders,' or (truly) 'amatures and novices who are in it for the love of it, -but not 100% true believers in the cause.'
-and whether that's 'fine,' or not,
-it will always exist.

What I've found (generally?,)
-Everybody wants to 'keep it real,'
-and everybody (particularly in this area,) is all freaked out about how 'authentic,' they are.
(Which is really laughable, -because it all falls under the subtitle of 'keeping up with the joneses.')

There are folks who have money, culture, education, and style,
---who have a 'badass,' side (all riding around in their RangeRovers listening to Rage Against the Machine, or having a 'real job,' while buying a lot of black leather and riding on a monster harley,)

-Offset by folks who are shaking signs and clinging to poles for some cause one minute, -then headed off to Costco or TraderJoes (then to little Bobby's soccer game,) the next...

This whole arguement is about 'class struggle,' and insecurity over what others think...
(am I cool enough?, do others think I'm legit?,)
-and this area is waaaay too worried about what others think,
-be it on a national, state, or personal level.

The ones who really GET IT?

The folks who can create something, or put their ideas and visions into reality,
-and do so regardless of praise and acceptance,
--and then can (and will,) hang with others who do the same, if invited,
-and if they simply have the time...
They've realized what their lives and dreams are for, and are doing them. (Don't matter if they're big or small dreams, -they're just functionally going about things, -and accomplishing a TON, -even if it's just 'keeping normal alive.')

-Not to sound all cyinical,
-but you realize that the people who own the teams and the venues,
-and create the situations CLEARLY have a leg up on the 'true-believers,' and fans, who go clamoring over manufactored 'rivalries,' -right?
(RIGHT?)

-You realize that most people who drive 4x4's NEVER really take them offroad?
-You realize that most people who are 'all about the cause,' actually have real jobs doing 'something,'
pay their bills, really want health insurance,
-and don't live off in a hut somewhere made out of stacks of 'Mother Jones,'
(RIGHT?)

Realize:
-That the genius of FRESNO (the mag.)is that it communicates between the people who 'want to know,' and who 'want to be known,' and does so beautifully, and is presentable in a magazine that you always wind up thumbing through while you're waiting your turn at the Dr, the Mechanic, (whatever.)

-Realize:
the genius of 'Dorktown Podcast,' or 'Fresnan,' is that these guys, (and girl,) are doing something that you may not always WANT to watch,
-but often wind up watching in spite of yourself, definitely registering opinions about,
-and laughing your ass off to,
-which to me?,
is mission accomplished.
Do they spend most of their time trashing damn near EVERYTHING?
sure...
They're like equal opportunity trashers with guttermouths and (seeming,) IQ's of Bill and Ted,
---but they're actually twisted brilliance,' and in their own sick way, making Fresno a better place...
Defending them is useless,
they can and WILL piss on your floor,
just realize that, at the end of the day?
they're good people,
and that (you) invited them in to begin with.

Realize:
-If life was a great as 'FRESNO,' magazine depicts it?
we'd have nothing to learn nor desire, ---as everything would be perfect, (think about it, no need for doctors, attorneys, homebuilders, remodellers, etc.) We'd want for nothing, and they'd have to shut down.

-And if things were dealt with to the severity that 'Undercurrent,' presents it,---and if everybody cared to the degree that they call for? We'd all out be getting arrested over their presented issues, (instead of reading about them,)
ALL the worlds troubles would end,
(and then we'd probably just run off and make new problems to justify our angst...)

ALL of these situations serve a need, people.
Stop being 'Owned,' by worrying about (either,) societal faction and rivalry.

-The publisher of FRESNO needs to go on Dorktown.
-Undercurrent needs to do an article on the publisher, up close and personal,(though, you know, legal teams may want to be consulted with first.)

-likewise?
Mike Seay and Co. need some serious ink in FRESNO, under
'How to keep the spirit(s) of a town alive, NOTE: NSFW,'
--cause I know a lot of professionals who would read it and love it...

Closest thing we're going to get to that?
More articles in all of them on Assemi's newest building projects.
(-which is a damn good start.)

Well, that and that Nigel was finally lauded in the Art Museum...

yes if they really wanted to really do him up they could have mentioned the places in Fresno that he regularly went to, I remember when I was at St. Thérèse school in the tower when they had the annual dinner night (or what ever the fund raiser was called) Boyington would come to it, I only remember this because my brother had a book or photo autographed by him, since he was popular thanks to the Black Sheep TV show.

now imagine if the Undercurrent had a glossy magazine like the Fresno mag?

i'm not giving him (wiffle) the all clear to say whatever, i'm just saying he's not bashing fresno. hell, his post is awarding fresno stuff. and the only thing i said i was interpreting was the tag line on his blog. but i'll stand behind my claim that he doesn't bash on things just because they're from fresno.

if i ask the question, "best local website," what do you think of? me, i think about things that are about fresno. sites that provide information about what is going on in fresno. do you think of a realty website?

i guess the people that responded to a magazine survey did. that's fine. if i were giving the survey takers advice, i'd tell them to phrase the question a little differently because there are quite a few community oriented websites in fresno. that is, unless they want responses that range from a realty site, fresfam, and a wine seller. and vino 100 is a chain with around 40 or so national locations, although they do have a local page which actually, imho, is much better than guarantee's. (i'm starting the campaign to get the local hooters branch's website onto the winner's list next year.)

as for when ff won the award, i'm not sure how many people congratulated, lamented, or sent snarky remarks to jarah. but, i do know on the announcement of the award here there are 0 comments.

and don't worry, i'm not taking this personal or feeling under attack. i think it's healthy for people to discuss and have interchange of ideas (not saying you don't as well). i'm glad someone is taking up for fresno mag. i've read a few issues, didn't care for it, and didn't ever consider reading it again. your comment at least got me to look at their website (which is also way better than guarantee. really.). shoot, the ability to skim their magazine in an online version is pretty nice. and since i skimmed it, i've got my current fill of the mag for a while more.

I don't remember this kind of breakdown and analysis of the Fresno mag voting system when fresnofamous was voted best website in 2005. We just all thought it was cool. Jarah announced that she would be attending the party that they held. That is after she was bashing the magazine before discovering the website was voted best. It's this kind of hypocrisy that permeates these responses.

And on that note,

Because someone claims they love Fresno edluv gives them the all clear to say whatever they want and we should never question or interpret it's meaning because edluv will interpet it for you "which i can only interpret as loving this place."

You forgot that I have the ability to make my own decisions and interpretations. There is no reason to make my response the focal point to defend other peoples statements. I'm sure they would not take offense to a simple heads up.

I merely wanted to put the notion out there that fresno mag, which has featured a few artists that are friends of mine is another media outlet in this town that can be beneficial to local artists.

Another comment was made above about it being an ad magazine. Look around the screen! This is the self righteous hypocrisy that I can do without.

"does guarantee.com really tell me what is up in fresno?" Only about the housing market. But I don't think that was asked for in "best web site"

Your talking about another contest.

I didn't mean to offend or attack just to point some things out.

I wish you well.

"Citizens of Fresno voted for what they believed to be the best in Fresno."

well, we assume that they are citizens. did they have to show an i.d. when they voted?

furthermore, we probably can only assume that they are readers of fresno magazine. how big of a slice of fresno is that? how representative of fresno's population is that? their website & magazine says that "thousands" of ballots were cast, but i was unable to find an actual tally. maybe they included it, but i didn't see. so, there roughly 450,000 people in fresno. let's be generous and say 4000 voted. that's less than 1% of fresno. heck, if they had 10,000 people vote that's only 2%. so, how much of fresno decided these were the "best?"

we know that some people in fresno voted for what they thought were the best. that's cool, it's their right, and we all can have a voice. and when voting for best local website, they came up with...a real estate sales tool. which, may actually fit fresno very well. we do have a ton of realtors.

it's not like wiffle degraded their whole magazine or readership (at least not here). he did say that they should leave out the category because they don't know what they're doing in this area. and maybe we should blame fresno for not knowing what they're doing on the internet. because really, i've perused guarantee.com, it is a good, functional tool for searching for available real estate. but really, would i go there for anything actually about fresno? wouldn't i be better off searching a website done by the chamber of commerce, a city government, a local university, one of fresno's newspapers (bee, the undercurrent, community alliance) or some other local group to know about what is important in fresno? does guarantee.com really tell me what is up in fresno?

finally, if you actually read what mike/wiffle/the fresnan writes here and on his website, the fresnan, you would know that he is all about all things fresno. he's not one to just bash something because it's from here. as his tag line says, he is "drunk on fresno's sweet, sweet booze," which i can only interpret as loving this place.

Jason, I think you're confused. No one is saying that Fresno Mag shouldn't be published. That's censorship. What we are saying is that the magazine sucks. We are utilizing that freedom of expression you hold so dear.

You see, you're allowed to say something is terrible, that the articles are poorly written and uninteresting. Maybe that sort of stuff interests you. Great, it's a free country.

The reason why Fresno Mag should die is that the city deserves a magazine that doesn't suck. Maybe a magazine that's not written at the second grade level. One that celebrates local culture, rather than the editors' friends. AntiMusik mentioned the Pappy Boyington article. Boyington was a national hero and inspired a television show. He was someone Fresno Mag could have written a great (or at least ok) story about. Instead, they merely regurgitated the wikipedia article.

If we're trying to attract business from other parts of the state, wouldn't it be nice if the hometown magazine was better than the local high school newspaper? Aren't we trying to convince industry that there are intelligent people here who can be valuble assets to any company?

Maybe that is censorship after all...

Wiffle,

Maybe you should take your own advise and not comment on things when you don't know the facts. Citizens of Fresno voted for what they believed to be the best in Fresno. Those are the results that you see in Fresno Magazine. It amazes me how people can't find anything better to do that bash Fresno and whatever it produces.

Tommy,

"The day that rag dies is a good day for this town."

Really? There is not enough room in this town for varying opinions and interests that we have to hope for the death of any publication that you don't like? YOU know what is good for this town and want to deny others freedom of expression?

I read what appeals to me and my interests but I would never deny others the opportunity to choose.

Grow up people!

I image what the undercurrent would be like if it was printed like glossy magazine.

The Fresno Magazine is the biggest pile of trash I've had the misfortune of reading in sometime (and I always read the in-flight magazines). The day that rag dies is a good day for this town.

when visiting some shops in Fig Garden village you see remnants of the old Farrells. The Farrells drum was still in the original buildings location at Applebees but I noticed that it's at the Longs Drugs now, unless there are two bass drums that Farrells used to beat, when people ordered a certain ice cream dish, or did they beat that drum for birthday parties too? Hey maybe Fresno Magazine can redeem the lame magazine with a article on Farrells Ice Cream in Fig Garden Village, hehe, but I doubt it would be that good they could not even write that much about Greg Boyington, it seemed like they just copied a story from the Bee from when he died here in the late 1980s.