The problem I've been having seems to be intermittent; I clicked on a couple of latest headlines the other day that required login, as did the link that Jim Boren posted to MindHub, but now some of that doesn't require anything.
But that's beside the greater issue. Would you want to have to log on to read a post from FresnoFamous? There may not be anything wrong with such a requirement, but it goes against the expectation that many of us youngsters get from the rest of the Web. I want it free, I want it now, and I want as few roadblocks as possible to getting it - whatever it is. And I'm not alone (at least I won't be forever...).
Sure, I can log in to contribute, or for added value, but information with barriers will continue to lose relevance (in a relative sense) and value. Unless the business model changes, there will be many bumps ahead for all of our local media.

I just visited the home page and I didn't log in and I was able to click on a leading story, the one about Councilwoman Sterling having an effort to get a recall on the ballot (go Rob DeFrees!).

What's wrong with creating an account once and then setting up your computer once to remember your username and password? Everything I clicked on has been free. Hell someone like the NY Times charges people to view their website.

As an update to this post, it seems the Bee is now requiring authentication for all news stories, not just those published for more than a week. That's right: even the homepage stories require logging in.
I really want to get my news from local media, but they just don't seem to be interested in letting go of the old guard. Even if it means layoffs and bankrupcy.

What?

If you are going to make an inane comment at least sign the damn thing.

hahaha, by that logic, you must be a fresnan?

perhaps if more fresnans could read this wouldn't be a problem.

p.s. it took me 6 tries to make your captcha work, it's supposed to be HUMAN readable

Rob DeFrees

J'espere que quelqu'un lit, il me ferala triste si ne sont pas

Yes, yes, most definitely that your writing grabs the reader... (messy sandwich on jumpers or no.)

I'd suspected that you'd written professionally before, ---but that you do this by keeping a steady diary?
Good enough.

The point being...

I dare say, that there are others who are paid folks who do this for a living...
(And get paid to do it for a living, hah HAH!)

What I think people respond to in our stuff is that it's real... (warts and all.)

We write about what is happening, what's going on around us, --and it's believable and prodding because it's true...

Maybe that's the curse of it.
Only the alien and transplant can really write about the home turf, ---because everybody else is 'from here,' and misses it.

But I don't think so...

KimBurlly (not written in a million years, well she had a kid and all.. busy busy girl,)

TOTALLY a FresGirl ---and her stuff is astonishing. (Same for your other littler Roller fiend, er, friend Lola...)

I think there has to be an honesty factor, a 'telling the truth no matter how much it pains me to (edit/not edit.)

And I want to see more of that...

(I mean, it's a real angels conundrum... on the one hand you want to apologize to folks for accusing them of being asleep at the wheel, ---then one of them writes and says '...excellent idea... yours was the icewater that reminded me why I got into this whole deal to start with...'

(more often than not, you just wander about, hoping that if they do recongnize you they're not going to drag you out by the collar and give you 'whatfor,' for excessive use of strange little dots... and dashes.

Face it Rob
If they read us, ---they'll read anyone.
---and we want lotsa others to chime in...
(Though I'd not call your writ overlong and hard to get through...

-mine on the otherhand...?

There are mug shots with rewards posted on optomitrists and editors walls clear across the county...

(...and sorry 'bout the messy jumper...)

Rob DeFrees

Hmmmmmmmmm, not quite sure how to take this latest from you.

You are a right clever chap and had thought that you understoond that the use of 'MOI' was a running joke.

'written somewhere before'........ does that mean that MOI earned a living doing this? Perhaps being a life long diarist qualifies MOI as having written somewhere before.

There is not doubt that you love language, the sandwaich of a chat you serve up, overflows with so many things inside of it, that it drips out, forcing one to constantly check and see if one has caught all of the makings as one gobbles up the sandwich.

Did you mean to imply that my writing grabs the attention of the reader? Like to think that what is told is my take on life as MOI comes into contact with it on a daily basis.

One who does write for a living told MOI that my efforts tend to run long and one gets lost, am trying to be more focused. It is always a pleasure to read your thoughts, even if 'MOI' drips a bit on his jumper............

The Bee has gutted Jarah's work!

I had no idea that such a sort of thing even existed... (the councils or whatever...)
Huh...

This sort of puts the kabosh on that idea, (which in the land of 'put up or shut up,' rousts me out as apparently just griping...

I seriously don't have the time each day to sit in on such things...
My sched is completely packed, (and with the fuel prices the way that they are? One of my businesses (building bikes,) has me (literally,) putting together (probably,) 160? (thereabouts) before Monday...
--Throw in school (perhaps not this summer, but definitely at the end of it...)
Folks-l-think I died...

I've been thinking of the (orig.) post I put up a lot today, (as always, it's lovely to see you on the boards... I've been too long gone on FF, and am basically a lurker...)

This is sort of what I was thinking (in a positive sense.)

--I like Adrians effort (Update) in that it really does try to give a straightforward
'...this is the news, this is what's going on, these are the facts, and how folks are dealing with them.'
NO MANIPULATION...
--and the nice thing is? I get updates bounced into my computer --and find them to be pretty credible 'telling you like it is,' sort of stuff. (kudos, Age...)

Again, I'm sort of used to pulling in the same story from a lot of different sources and getting a fuller picture, (though, truth be told, --I never really could fall in love with the WallStreet Journal... (we had our flings, and I totally respect her... but there was no great sense of 'oh-god-take-me-I'm-yours.' ---But I most gladly will suffer through an article, ---sometimes really dig it, if it's a subject that I can hook into.

All the local efforts definitely have their flavor, and I try to take them for what they are...

What's sort of galling me is stuff like (what feels like,) EITHER
-missing stuff
-or
-blackout...

I mean, my world sort of spreads out, but I'm usually here (between CSUF and Fashion Fair (home,) --or up with one of the stores in Riverpark/Pinedale, --or on the road someplace, --or doing church or something...

I don't write so much (m'self,) on areas like Roeding, Tower, Downtown, ---because, honestly, I don't hang there so much anymore (too busy,) ---so I'll flash on specific events and such...

But what gets me?

(For example.)

1. -In the Roeding area...
--with some of the efforts I was a part of I had the opportunity to spend more times in that vicinity of the city.
---There were murders (at least three that I remember,) when I was down there (probably a space of about a year or so?
---Nothing ever said, nothing in the media... (I'm assuming because these were people considered 'homeless,')

Some definite weirdness regarding the case with the lawsuit over destruction of property... (again, -nothing said.)

2, -Big thing (bout a year back on 'teens in Riverpark.'
--Now, honestly? I've been there pretty steadily for over a year and change...
--SO much goes on up there, --and you never hear about it...
--Last week? Some guy's walking around the parking lot outside one of the retail stores (very definite family retail clothing store,) with his johnson hanging out...
(for those of you with the name 'johnson,' (pardone...)
--perhaps a better euphamism would be 'matched set.')
---I reported the situation to the cops about an hour after it happened, (somebody in one of the stores was basically 'presented,' by this scheckle, (with his schmeckle...0
---but the police were like, '...you need to call that in, because we're on our way to stop a fight between two guys that people have been calling about...'
--Any mention of either?
Fights? Dude walking around with his 'how-do-ya-do? on public display?

Nope.

3. -Where I live? The ghetto-hawk circles all the time... I hear sirens, (fire, police, EMT, etc...) go by all the time...
Sometimes a LOT of sirens...

---Couple of times on the way home? Cops be buzzing after whatever (air, ground, etc.) like Al Capone was trying to make a getaway...
(no comment in any media, I have no idea what the deal was.)

4. -Established Stuff:
(and forgive me if I've missed something, seriously, I tend to look at the online versions of such things as the Bee, ---but find that it's pretty much same...

-Local kid is like, Summa Cum Laude or something like that (HS? College?) ---but 'ooopsie,' ---He and his family (or his family,) may just be considered 'illegal,' because they're Armenians who were fleeing a country and were being persecuted, (which, btw. -persecution does result in asylum (at least back in NY... I've had clients who had this revealed and 'poof,' they were in...)

WHAT A STORY...
I mean,
MY GOD...
-kids a rocket scientest, family is no slouch either, ---and they're 'in limbo,' (PS: even the Holy Roman Catholic Church really doesn't even endorse 'limbo,' anymore...
---What happened to this kid?
---Why was his plight not mentioned in the ceremonies, in the coverage by the media...?
---Doesn't somebody think it might be a bit of an interest (...gee wiz, we just had a big ta-doo about the Armenian Genocide not being recognized... ---maybe folks might want to read WHY this kids family had to jet? Live here? Live there?
--THAT is a story, friend... (and a real nailbiter in my opinion...)

-Kid (on meds,) having had previous episodes of behaviors, goes off, clubs a cop, and is shot...
---What happened with the backstory on those situations? (I mean, I know some local journalists really tried to stirr the question pot, and raise interst, (kudos.)
--but are there other kids in the same boat?
--how is this being dealt with in other areas?
-stuff like that...

I mean, today in freakin' Clovis my landlord (and buddy,) were sitting and eating a late breakfast...
--I heard tonsa old guys (this diner had a lot of regulars, and most of them prolly knew the founding fathers AND a few folks since then...
---Clearly I hear one guy say, '...okay, boys, not to switch the subject, but --who you voting for? What do you think in terms of the gay marriage thing???
---And Clovis is pretty conservative, --yet the issue was being discussed
---So folks are talking about it...

--What's sort of (aggrivating.)
Largest church in the US (I think, now, not sure,) Saddleback (south in the state 'Rick Warren' / WillowCreek sort of deal...)
HUGE church,
---decides to 'welcome gay dads,' for fathers day...
---How did I hear this?
-New York freakin' Times... (I still read it on line...)
--Pretty provocative and up and coming church that's affiliated with Saddleback here in the area...
---how'd they handle it???
(like this 'gay marriage,' thing has been a bit of a buzz lately...)
-No coverage of what THAT church is saying (and Warren making this statement was considered a real lightening rod (in a sense,)
--as the church system (classically,) will not allow 'out,' and 'active,' gays and lesbians to be members (at least locally, if you read the by-laws...)

---pretty churchy town we gots us here (including my denom which had a major split on just this issue.)

---Not a lotta coverage with what folks were thinking there,
---Though I found Will's video footage and the coverage in the bee on the first day of 'gay folks,' getting hitched to be pretty darn open and cool...

(closing,)

I just think about why folks react to my writings, guys like Rob DeFrees writings... YOURS...
---I mean, personally? I'm all for hearing anybody's perspective and opinion...
---but I find that people really respond when we write what (our) world is... ---and people really react to it, --and write on their own worlds...
---And that freakin' totally ROCKS...!

--Why can't the newspapers do that???
I mean, obviously Rob has written somewhere before, (excessive use of 'moi,' --but then again, I slaughter the queens tongue (no offence Rob,) and grammar is my spectre of choice..)
---but there are waaaaaay better writers who get PAID to write.
--Where are they?
--WHO's holding them back?
--These are NOT stupid nor non-observant people, (by any stretch...)

(The (young ones,) really have an ethic and an interest
--the old guys (and girls?)
Yeah, I can tell,
I can SMELL that they know stuff,
--that there are subjects that 'really really really need to be aired...'
--but for whatever reasons (which I respect? I'm not sure... yeah, no, maybe,)
I understand their paths...

I just think, ---having written (myself, not even being a reporter,) and being able to say '...this is what's really going on there, this is what I see, -what do you think?'
---folks totally DIG that.
---and it's not about 'how cool 'we,' are.'
--it's that the reality of what we're facing others are like... '..Dude, you need to speak that up... that needs to be talked about.'

I think everybody has that...

I just really wish that the media was more about 'that,'
(the above subjects are simply off the top of my head stuff that struck me,)
---THINGS are HAPPENING EVERYDAY... (even if it seems to be 'oh nothing, just life in the 'no.'

My little world in the 'no, is one hopping place (not all of it good, (such as the nice gentlemen selling dope out of their car across the street at the moment...)

Sometimes it just feels like (even what some of my fellow bloggers write,)
comes across as so much advertising, --not 'how it's really going on.'
---What are people so afraid of?

And other times, it's sort of like reading the sections I haunt in Craigslist (bikes, cars, etc.)
'..I need a large mens full suspension Mt. Bike, want to pay between 100 to 200 for it.'
---lone and behold?
--Three to six ads suddenly pop up for the same exact bike now for sale...
(that's dialogue, baby... that's live happening, American Cash Money life going on...)

-but that's sort of (also,) placing an order and others reacting.

News is different, ---yet so often I sort of get the feeling that somebody is sitting there saying 'lets show them this story about THIS, (not THAT) ---because it fulfills the request for X type of story and interest...

Life ain't like that.

Real reporting ain't like that.

Real news is what's happening being really written about and folks saying
'...huh?!,
it either (reinforces) or (completely blows out of the water,) what I was thinking, ---but son of a gun, -there it is... a subject that really affects others, and this is why...

Real news, even real life here in Fresno isn't 'timely,' (not even in God's country up above the Nees...)

Real news is about real life, ---and real life (no matter how 'boring,' it may seem to some,)
actually STOPS time,
demands attention,
and requires the reader to consider it,
---maybe change their mind, mabye solidify...
---but it cannot be ignored...

I really think, in fact I KNOW stuff is just not getting said, (perhaps we're too worried about 'image,' --too worried about 'reinforcing stereotype,'
---not facing reality, and asking 'why,' and 'how do we change this...'

Maybe it has to start with '...why don't we care?'

(okay, off to bed with me.. I'm up in less than six hours...)

-Best to the Dr. and young lovelies, Hyphenator, (as always,) --and best to you.

Party on, Garth...

-E

OOTV: I know the Bee offers a chance to sit on an editorial board meeting where they decide what they will highlight in that day's paper. Their only requirement is at the end of the meeting you have to say what you would have covered and why.
Perhaps you and others here could give that a try? I would be willing to join in if need be.

I'm curious as to what divisions the cuts were made in, -I'm also curious as to what was stuff that 'aged out,' -and was replaced by tech, --and what was also folks who were 'aging out,' and due for retirement as the papers were saying.

I dunno, I mean, coming from areas back east where there was a heavy saturation of news from every possible angle? (I mean, everything from gut level 'underground,' to really opinion and political stance heavy gossip rags, to heavy business (Wall St. Journal, etc.) --to very focussed town newspapers, ---I grew very used to getting my news and such from a variety of sources, -and realized that each source was telling me a different side of the story based upon the paper's bias (and) projected 'readership.'

Those who I knew from different areas, (say on a commute into work,) often would laugh at the local paper that was handed us and yearn for such dailies like the Newark Star-Ledger.

There are two things that really come to mind in all of this:

-I've been impressed with the desire of (younger) reporters who really seem to care about truth, honest and fair reporting, quality writing and dissemination of information, ---and find it sort of heartbreaking when I see them handing things to a public that has gotten so used to 'infotainment,' -and news that is sooooo custom tailored, self-indulgent, --and far from provocative.

It's like there is this new beat of reporters and those who care about public discussion (who realize that what they say can spark interest,) being given really sharp insights and leads on stuff that really could matter, ---and then marching them off to face a zombie hoard that just wants 'mush,' --and really doesn't want to think.

That's got to be aggrivating as hell.

It's like they (the new writers,) really want to address things, -and they're finding that the public just isn't interested, and can't bear to pay attention that long.

Tying in with that?

There is something going on here that really shuts down any sense of 'need to know,' or that 'why,' really matters.

I see news happening all the time (my neighborhood, areas I work in, etc.) ---and rarely see it really being covered..
I mean, you see stuff go down? And you just sort of KNOW that it's not going to make it into any form of public discussion, --because it's 'not really allowed,' by one interest or another. (First issue to come to mind? 'Behaviors and problems up at Riverpark and how the image can never be 'tarnished,' --almost like it's some sort of vestal virgin, (while) Manchester is the exact opposite, Fashion Fair is a close (unstable) cousin, ---and Fulton Mall is a Ghosttown...'

I've not been here that long, and It became obvious a long time ago that what I was being handed in news media was not what was really happening, --but what was what people wanted said.

--Again, as a reporter? That has to just build a type of cynicism and semi-coma.

It's also given rise (in my opinion,) to a strong polarity, ---almost cartoon like, at times, of 'alternate,' media...
-THAT also SO supercharged to the other side, that it's turned me off because I feel like I have to summon somebody who speaks 'Fresno-Radical' and 'Normal,' to translate it into something that I'm able to ingest and not be afraid that it's going to cause me to break out in peace-symbol hives and want to burn down the local 'right-wing' outpost.

Final frustrations, Really?

For a news source (Bee) that is so dominating on line (which is where I tend to read it, if I do,) ---I hate the endless degree of ads, pop-ups, constant 're-checking in,' ---only to find articles that really don't tell me much. (Who, Why, When, Where, --What it means, How it fits...)
-It's like an endless parade of of comments that tell me of an event that has 'just occurred,' ---and then there's no follow up.

Short form?
I feel like there are things happening in Fresno, I KNOW there are things happening in Fresno...
But I don't think it really matters enough for folks to demand to know what, why, and where it is...

--Sure,,, There are pet subjects (College Sports,) and then an endless series of Dog-Vs-Cat subjects, ---whole time? Everybody knowing that things are not going to change nor really matter, -it's just Fresno, the sun will come up in the morning, -and the sprinklers will kick on overnight...

I think there is tons of life happening here, (good and bad,) and that it's not going to be reported, -because folks just have no interest. (So people can say or not say what they want, --and 'real news,' and complete fodder can be spouted endlessly, --it's just not going to matter.)

Looking at the whole thing (and I don't watch TV news, honestly,) It becomes really glaring:
Because there is this sense of 'whatever,' --there's no real need to have anything really hit, stick, or raise public conciousness... It's like accountability and a need to deal with realities (harsh or soft,) are like just another option...
--Which is, to me? a really really sad thing.
Real life is happening here, some of it pretty gritty, some of it pretty dark and sinister, some of it pretty entangled, some of it pretty sad and awful, ALL of it worth knowing and caring about (there's good too... a lot of good...)
---but I feel like I'm getting a constant wash of processed 'white noise.'

I wonder how writers and reporters in the media in this town cope with that. I mean, I can tell (when I interract with them, ---the younger ones,) a real desire and sense of integrity...
--Some of the older?
A bit of '...okay, kid, just sit around, you'll see what really matters and what's really happening, ---and then you'll find out what is going to finally be said...'
(No disrespect... I mean, they were once young and ambitious too...)

I just never knew 'Beige and Adobe' would be synonomus with so many other things that,
up to here?
Would come to mind only after I found pods in basements...

I do as well. I like Reuters, AP, Yahoo, Google and many others for quick stuff.

Main thing being that there are a lot people who do not use PC's of any kind for news. And for the most part, anyone that does not get the news on a PC, is probably getting it from the TV.

It's funny, I know a lot of people use the net, but I also know a lot of people do not.

Just clarifying.

I wonder what some actual numbers are. I'm just kind of shooting from the hip using many of the people I know.

Diablo

Since writing this early this morning, and reading these comments and things posted elsewhere, I want to emphasize that I didn't write this to pick on the Bee, though I've certainly been critical in the past.
Actually, I posted here to highlight the value that I find in being able to participate in community dialog; I just wish I could do the same on the Bee's main website.
Josh, thanks for the link to the eBee. I was tempted to sign up, but this concept goes against Valley Notebook's suggestion of writing for the web—it's thinking of print first, Internet second. And if that's what we're left with, RSS feeds are much more mobile.
Diablo, I'm not sure if your thought on PC usage includes mobile PCs, but I read a lot on the 3" screen on my phone. Most of us are wired to the Internet at some point during the day, and we've learned to get our information there, whether news or gossip, local or international.
Anyway, that's about enough from me for a day...

Opps, here's the permalink

http://valleynotebook.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/fresno-bee-retreats-from-...

the 7 section in the EBEE, what's up with that?

The appeal of digital information via PC seems better suited to people with desk jobs. The increase in people getting information through their computer seems like it'd be proportionate to the amount of people able to spend some kind of idle time at a computer.

Along with the technology has come those jobs that surround it, there are only so many of those jobs. I suspect that the needed tech support against a population can be calculated to a percentage to some degree. I'd suspect that the increase in people getting information/news from their PC is somewhat related. Rather, the link would be that people who use a PC regularly to any degree would be the ones most likely to be getting their news that way.

There is still a large population of people that do not have the idle time to sit at a PC to get the days news. Would tend to agree to the general notion that print is dead to some degree. It's either TV or PC. Anyone that doesn't get the news from a PC is getting it from the TV.

Great post and points pido

Diablo

I give 10 suggestions in my blog yesterday, sorry I didn't post it here already.

www.valleynotebook.wordpress.com

Cool. I wasn't aware. I will have to check it out.

You can get an on-line subscription with minimal ads (well, equal to what's in the paper). It's called E-Bee and it's essentially a digital copy of the print product, with various viewing options.

As on-line reading goes, I like this a lot because everything (headlines, phots, ads) is in context of the print publication. Nothing I hate more than seeing a story in the paper and having to track it down on-line.

I'm not trying to sell this thing, but it exists, for what it's worth.

Advertisers don't want to pay for ads that are easily blocked or ignored. Content providers don't want to drive away their readers, but the advertisers are the ones writing the checks. So it is a balancing act that for the Bee has unfortunately tipped in favor of the advertisers. But at least they're not using product placement (yet).

Print media is dying and that's been known for years. The trend is to go on-line with this stuff, but the public is used to seeing stuff on-line for free, so whereas you pay a subscription for print media, the on-line stuff is all ad-based. I'd probably pay for an on-line subscription to the Bee if it had minimal ads, but I don't think there are enough people in that group to make it a viable offering.

Regarding the economic downturn, that's due to the weak US dollar. That's caused by the Fed keeping the rates low. That's because too many people and too many banks were greedy and wanted more than they could afford. There is a reason they're called sub-prime. Raise rates, and foreclosures increase and banks start to fold. So we're stuck with the better of 2 bad options.

The Bee voice of Democrats and the open minded search for truth is a nice contrast to the Republicans and their closed mindedness here in Fresno. I don't like kicking the Bee too much.
Hey, where's my Scoopy t-shirt? Pido good.

You made some good points.
regarding the restricted content went viewing the bee's website, I've had those lame speed bumps I'm not sure how many times I've made up fake names and emails just to see the older news, I've even used Google's cashed pages to view old news that was blocked by registering of paying a fee.

Economic down turn, the country is finally starting to see what happens when you sell out your jobs to foreign job markets, all those Made in China, American Flags, should have been a warning sign for more people. One of the joke's last night on the Colbert show was that soon the Dollar will be printed in China with traces of lead paint.

I think that American companies with Headquarters in the US but manufacturing outside of the US need maximum punishment with tariffs on bring those goods back in, enough punishment to where it's a better investment for them to make the goods here again and employing people here again. But it's looking like it's going to get really worse before it will get better, if it can.