Convincing a friend to vote NO on Prop 8
So I was planning to write something up this weekend on my blog about Prop 8, but I wasn't quite sure what to say.
And then, I see a bulletin on MySpace from an old friend:
It's ultimately sad and schocking how many people have been fooled by this prop 8 garbage. I am all for gay marriage, equal rights, and especially that those gay marriages that have already been valid, stay valid! Prop 8 is just what it says---education--gay education in schools as young as 2nd graders. The way it's worded includes that gay marriages that have already taken place will be revoked and blah blah blah, which isn't true---Gay marriage has already been established by a different law, a different prop, Prop 8 is not this don't let them fool you. As a parent, I am voting YES on 8 and so should you---think about it a child at the age of 7 is so gullible and so are high school students apparently and adults too, so if you're confused, why in the Hell don't you think that a child would be confused if they start telling them to marry a person of their same sex. Totally not right. I do believe in God and we will all be judged accordingly and I don't think that a gay person will be in a different category as a heterosexual---we will all be judged equally in the kingdom of God, but sexual education is a PARENT'S responsibility not the government.
Here is my response:
First, the lawn signs say "Yes on Prop 8 - Protect Marriages." No where does it say anything about education. On the ballot title, prepared by the Attorney General, states:
ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
- Changes the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California.
- Provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.
Anything on Education? No.
The California Education Code permits school districts to offer comprehensive sex education, but if they do, they have to "teach respect for marriage and committed relationships." Parents can excuse their child from all or part of the instruction (I remember having to turn in a signed permission slip when I had Sex Ed).
The case they show on one of their commercials is of a first grade class that went to their lesbian teacher's wedding. They had to get consent from the parents (which they did - two kids didn't go because of that).While whether or not the wedding is something you would call a "teachable" experience, it was the parents' decision and they will answer any questions their children will have.
Also, This was also a charter school. It wasn't a public school. The commercial is lying to you about this.
What Prop 8 is trying to do is to amend the state constitution so that only a man and a woman can marry. In 2000, the voters of California passed Prop 22, which banned gay marriage. This past May, the State Court of Appeals deemed Prop 22 unconstitutional because it violated the Equal Protection Clause and because no where in the section about marriage does it say anything about only a man and woman can marry. Prop 8 seeks to change this.
To be fair, the question of whether Prop 8 would retroactively revoke same-sex marriages is in question because there is no mention of it in the bill. This will most likely be tied up in the courts because of this.
But ultimately, Proposition 8 is basically a way to single a group out, that's all. You can't be for gay rights and gay marriage and vote Yes on Prop 8. If Proposition 8 passes, it will only prove that for the right amount of money using saying the right things, you can pass any bill. Those out-of-state Mormons did a good job of confusing the public with their $20 million in contributions. Next thing you know, they'll have other laws restricting gays or other groups of people. The possibilities are endless.
And, lastly, the day after John McCain chose Sarah Palin was the day I lost all respect for him. It was nothing but a desperate ploy to garner Hillary supporters and not at all a serious choice for the position of the Vice President of the United States. She is just an anti-abortion, anti-intellectual who is seeking to divide the country, calling certain places the "real America." People are tired of that. They want a Uniter - they want real change.
Is the ability to procreate essential to marriage?
truelovewaits asks;
"So the ability to procreate is essential to marriage?
Do ministers ask the groom or bride if they are fertile?"
to answer your question, no, because male/female couples are assumed to be fertile, while "gay" couples are not. the standard is male/female couples, not the other way around, no matter how much you feel that its normal, a "gay" union is a sociobiologic mistake
sex addictions, are short-circuits of natural processes, you can not procreate as a gay couple, have to use diff process; is that "natural"?
can you find an example of an ancient Greek or Roman "gay" marriage, performed as a marriage & sanctioned by the State?
"Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing."
William James
So the ability to procreate is essential to marriage?
So the ability to procreate is essential to marriage?
Do ministers ask the groom or bride if they are fertile? Or if they want to have children? No...
And there is in vitro fertilization for those gays and lesbians if they want to have children. Or can they can adopt.
I don't think the human race is going to die off soon.
Procreation
"in biology, no species can survive with large % of gays, those studies that claim 10%, seem overblown"
I dare say, humanity appears to be in no danger of dying out due to lack of procreative activity.
Even if they did change the wording on the ballot, it still has
truelovewaits said:
"The Attorney General has nothing to do with it." & " So what if he's gay?"
according to the SFC he did change the wording, why?
because he has to protect his (very personal) interests
biology, no species can survive with large % of gays, those studies that claim 10%, seem overblown
& I dare say, that if all the studies were done on captive breeding subjects (cattle, parks & zoos) its not a natural setting, so what is the % in the wild?
should California have spent $$$millions on the condor breeding program, if condors were gay?
"it ain't over, til it's over", Yogi Berra
truelovewaits said: "And,
truelovewaits said:
"And, lastly, the day after John McCain chose Sarah Palin was the day I lost all respect for him. It was nothing but a desperate ploy to garner Hillary supporters and not at all a serious choice for the position of the Vice President of the United States"
actually, I feel that Palin & Obama have about the same experience, I would have preferred a Biden/Obama ticket
PBS's Frontline did a very good piece on Obama/McCain, I didn't like either candidate before, but I'm still voting for McCain, why?
1) if Obama is tested by al-Quada, it will be the death of the Demo party as we know it.
why? I feel that if Al Gore had been prez when 9/11 happened, no Dem would be prez for another 50-100 years, why? because the Repus would have hammered them over the head each time they peeked their heads about higher office, waving 9-11 over them like a rallying cry to battle & calling them "surrender monkeys"
2) what has Obama really done? he ran a really impressive campaign, but has he ever dealt with national issues in any positive way? Dems said the they would end the war in Iraq, they've been the majority in Congress for 2 years, what did Obama do in that time?
nada, nothing, zilch
"it ain't over, til it's over", Yogi Berra
Oy Vey.
Thats an ad hominem logical fallacy sir. The Attorney General has nothing to do with it. So what if he's gay? Why sugar coat the issue? They are not "limiting" gay marriage. They want to "eliminate" gay marriage.
Even if they did change the wording on the ballot, it still has nothing to do with education.
"Here is my response: First,
"Here is my response:
First, the lawn signs say "Yes on Prop 8 - Protect Marriages." No where does it say anything about education. On the ballot title, prepared by the Attorney General, states:
ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT"
prepared by the Attorney General, states
Jerry Brown is a "closeted" gay, of course he would re-write the original ballot title.
"And by changing the way the measure was framed in its title and summary, Brown just might have tipped the balance in what looks to be a close election.
Here's the story:
Prop. 8 asks voters to affirm that "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California" - a concept that voters overwhelmingly backed when they approved Proposition 22 in 2000."
story available here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/26/BADT13NUOH.D...
"it ain't over, til it's over", Yogi Berra
...but sadly, many are falling for it.
It those commericials that keep playing over and over spewing their lies. You just have to break it down to people, 1 at a time and hope that you can change their minds.
So what if tolerance of homosexuality was taught in school?
So what if tolerance of homosexuality was taught in public schools?
At the very least, gay kids would finally have the backing of their teachers and administrators in standing up to the rampant anti-gay bullying that we all know goes on, and, yes, in kids as young as kindergarten age.
And at best, gay kids and gay parents, both, would be comfortable in the knowlege that, at long last, heterocentric information in children's stories such as "Cinderella," "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty," and older teenage topics like sex education and mock weddings would finally have homosexual information included side by side, as it should have been all along.
Besides, this whole right wing, bigoted brouhaha about "homosexuality being taught in the schools," is just one more way they put the Left on the defensive.
Don't fall for it.
Post new comment