Fresno Famous

city council

it is total bull that any community should feel thankful or obliged to a government entity that oppresses them. the city council has proven time and time again that they don't give a shit about any of us. they care about power and money. this is what all government cares about.

people have been oppressed and exploited since the development of government started about 10,000 years ago. why should we thank them for taking our money, creating artifical borders to keep some in and others out, to wage endless, pointless wars and send us to die for them? we don't need government. we can organize among ourselves and create community-based alternatives.

this community garden is a great example of that, and the government and capitalists can't stand to see examples of alternatives. they want all of us in the world to bow to them, to buy into the lie that we need their protection. we don't! and that's why they want to abolish the garden. there's another site well-suited to the substation yet they insist on this garden.

they need us, we don't need them! anarchy now!
http://www.geocities.com/capitolHill/1931/

Hmong Garden

I am glad you did your research! I agree with you. Being of Hmong decent, I feel that this issue not only deals with loosing the garden, but the fact that we are the minorities in this situation. Because we have been taken for granted many times before, our elders feel that this is another one of those issue, but they need to get over that fact and see the "BOTTOM LINE" of the issue. I feel that the city has the right to do what they need to and our elders need to respect and appreciate the fact that the city had allowed them the opportunity to use this land to farm. There are reasons why a police station needs to be where it does and it takes a lot of planning and negotiation before the plan is exploit. Our elders need to appreciate the fact that the city is willing to relocate them and they have put in the "EFFORT" to find another garden. I understand the inconvenience of the new location and I understand that they may need to restart over, putting in a more work to get the garden going again, but for 13 years, the city has allow them this land for their use and free water... come on... where is the sense in this case? Some may consider Summer Vue a Spokesperson for the Hmong community, but with her experience, I wouldn't consider this statement. She is merely just a person with an opinion and because she has more advantage with the English language, she feels she is there to represent. I hope the community does not consider her a spokesperson for the Hmong community because this is not a fact.

Another thing, the Hmong community needs to understand that just because Blong Xiong, Council President is Hmong, does not mean he is there to help the Hmong people. I had the pleasure of having Blong Xiong speak at the school I work for regarding diversity and let me tell you, I never knew him before the speech, but he is an avid speaker and very knowledgeable about the city. He was voted into office because he's there to represent the city and not there to do work for the Hmong community. I hope that he continues to stand up for what is right (which he has, even standing up to the hmong community when we are wrong), and I hope he continues his ground of righteousness.

I know it may sound like I have no pride in my culture, but I tremendously do. I appreciate my heritage and my background, but I will not stand on the ground of wrongdoing and this "Garden issue" is one of them. Do not use our minority issue to conquer this problem because it has nothing to do with each other. This is what I mean by standing on the wrong ground.

we can't trust "the law"

in the US slavery was legal. scalping native americans and bringing back the "trophy" not was not only legal but rewarded. slaves and indentured servants running away from their masters was illegal.

corporations and the gov't are destroying the Earth, murdering people around the world, supprting brutal dictators, polluting, making crazy, excessive profits while people die of starvation, and this is legal and/or tolerated.

what does this say about laws and this society's version of "justice"?

laws have always been used to justify exploitation and oppression of people by (usually) rich, white males.

laws don't dictate what's right. civil rights organizers would agree with that, like rosa parks and MLK.

as for property, this whole country is stolen native land, which europeans took by force, signing bogus treaties and then breaking their own treaties. private property is bullshit, especially when it's not the capitalists'/governments' to begin with.

so before spouting off about what's "right", think about where we get our ideas of right and wrong from. we must think for ourselves and question authority.

support the community garden! the city has enough pigpens already.

grant

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the City of Fresno actually receive a grant (federal or state?) so that they could buy that land, in the mindset of having it converted into a park?
If anyone has an answer, can you give me a source please?

Btw, I wanted to point out that from what I have heard the farmers were not adequately represented, and instead the council people just invited other people who didnt have any experience with the land to represent them. Dare I say, conspiracy?

One last point, I was watching the Ksee vid or one of those channels and they talked about how Hmong leaders had met with Blong Xiong and Alan Autry at City Hall, and agreed with them about the plans as well as assuring that they would stop it. Thing is I have absolutley no clue who those guys are. I am a Hmong who has lived in the valley all my life, and the only person who the elders and everyone else (in Minnesota, Winc, and even Laos) recognized as the Hmnong leader is General Vang Pao. Anybody other them him is a fake.

The TRUTH Hurts #2

If any one would like to contact me and have a Meaningful and Intellectual conversation or debate, you can contact me at:

mister.xiong@gmail.com

This email account will be open for the duration of this issue. Afterward the account will be deleted.

Please, if you just want to email some ignorant remarks, don't waste your time. I am always looking for some young intellectual Hmong minds to converse with.

Regards,
Don Xiong

The TRUTH Hurts

Doug, you are an ignorant person. I am young Hmong male, an avid hunter, a true conservative and I live in Fresno. I have never done any of the things that you have stated in your comment. So please, like you said, don't include me into your "they". And please go spread your hate somewhere else.

Why is everyone in the media and all these "community activist" and everyone else involved, turning this issue into a "Hmong Farmer" v.s. City of Fresno. When the fact is that this is a "farmers" v.s. City of Fresno. The farmers being Hmong has nothing to do with the issue. Please... quit throwing in the race card every time there is a disagreement.

Now, with that being said, I do agree with our "friend" Doug that ignorance of the law does not excuse you from it. And that these farmers are playing the victim. I know I am going to get a lot of heat for my comments because I am Hmong but the reality is that my comments are true. And the true hurts... I don't stand for the Hmong Community or any cultural community. I don't care if you are yellow, brown, black, white or purple. I stand for what is right REGARDLESS of your color or background. And what is right here is that these farmers are on someone's property and that "someone" happens to be the City of Fresno.

Now the city is kind enough to find another place free of charge like the place that they are on now. I understand that the new lot is a smaller lot but still they were not even suppose to be on the lot that they are on now.

From my understanding and from my research that I have done on this issue, the farmers had plenty of times to voice their concerns. They held many meetings and would invite these farmers to the meeting but no one ever showed up. Then they decide to ask a group of younger individuals, probably family members, to come to the meetings and act on the best interests of the farmers but again no one showed up.

If I am wrong in my research, please someone correct me. If not, then they had their day. Bottom line is that the farmers are in a area that they are not suppose to be in. The city is kind enough to find another location for them instead of just kicking them out.

The TRUTH, it hurts. I am HMONG and I stand for what is RIGHT regardless of color or background.

Update on the Hmong Community Garden - the Struggle Continues

Please Forward
(Fresno Bee article on the "agreement" with the gardeners below the update)

Organizing Meeting on Sunday at 5pm @ 935 F St in Chinatown

Please come to Fresno City Council on Tuesday(Oct 21) at 8:30am to hold the Council members accountable to all the farmers at the Hmong Community Garden

Update
------
This agreement being triumphed by Fresno City Councilmember Caprioglio is a little more than suspicious. The plan to allow the gardeners to apply for a spot in the new community garden being developed at Melody Park was previously proposed. The gardeners don't seem to have any guarantee that they will receive a gardening plot in the new garden, as the plan is for garden plots to be given out by lottery.

The person who acted as translator for the Hmong gardeners who attended the meeting with the City is a staff member for District 4 Councilmember Caprioglio. It's been reported that Councilmember Caprioglio spoke out against Community gardens at a meeting only a few weeks ago, and yet all the sudden he is speaking as if he is a champion of community gardens.

From what we understand of this agreement and what we have heard from some of the farmers we believe that it is extremely important to make sure that Councilmember Caprioglio, the Parks Dept., and the City of Fresno have made this agreement with the gardeners in a fair way. We will not stop organizing on behalf of the farmers until the farmers of the Hmong Community Garden are treated in a fair way and come to an agreement which preserves their right to continue to feed their families.

With this in mind, the group that has formed recently to try to Save the Hmong Community Garden at its current location at Belmont and Dewitt will still be meeting on Sunday at 5pm at the CAFE Infoshop on 935 F St. in Chinatown(south of Tulare, on the west side of F st.)

We also call on all allies of the Hmong Community Garden, community gardening in general, and those who believe that the City should serve the best interests of residents of Fresno -

TO COME TO THE FRESNO CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON TUESDAY at 8:30am to make sure that Fresno City Council is held accountable for its actions regarding the Hmong Community Garden It is rumored that their will be another vote on the future of the garden, or that somehow things will be clarified for the gardeners at the council meeting. We want to make sure that things work out for all the Hmong currently gardening at the Hmong Community Garden at Belmont and Dewitt.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
Fresno, Hmong agree to move garden: Plan relocates farmers to site at Melody Park.

Oct 18, 2008 (The Fresno Bee - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- It looks as though a group of Hmong farmers will have their community garden in Fresno after all -- but they will be tilling the soil in a new location.

Friday, city officials and five of the eight families who farm the garden on Belmont Avenue reached an accord to relocate it to Melody Park, near Fowler and Shields avenues.

"I don't like change very much, but as long as they are willing to provide this for us, we'll be willing to come over here," Joua Lue Lo, 65, said through an interpreter as he visited the Melody Park site. "All we want to do is to be able to farm."

For the past 13 years or so, the gardeners have grown sugar cane and Asian vegetables on a 4-acre patch of vacant land near Belmont and Clovis avenues.

The garden, however, is on city property, and four City Council members voted earlier this year to go ahead with plans to build a police substation there.

The city told the Hmong gardeners they had to leave by Nov. 1.

Community support to save the garden grew in recent weeks after the plight of the Hmong farmers was chronicled in The Bee.

About 70 people gathered Wednesday to express their disappointment over the council's decision and they laid plans to speak at Tuesday's City Council meeting.

The City Council will still have to sign off on the relocation plan, probably Tuesday, city spokesman John Wallace said. Under the agreement, the farmers will be allowed to stay at the Belmont location until Dec. 31 to harvest their crops. The city will provide irrigation water for the new garden at no charge.

Fresno's Hmong community of 32,000 is the second largest in the United States. The agrarian Lao tribe first arrived in the United States as the Vietnam War ended.

While many in the latest generation work in professions, the drive to work the land remains strong among some parents and grandparents.

A group of older Hmong immigrants cleared the overgrown vacant plot on Belmont Avenue. Today, about 20 gardeners work a few rows each, producing enough vegetables for about 300 extended family members year-round.

Monica Yang was at Melody Park on Friday to help translate the city's proposal to the group of farmers. She said moving to the new location was not likely to be a difficulty.

Many who grow their crops at the Belmont location drive or take a bus there. Now, they will just take a different bus line, she said.

The new plot has other perks, too. Randall Cooper, city parks director, said that to make room for the garden, a ponding basin will be filled in and divided into plots.

Unlike the Belmont land, the farmers will have some shade and access to restrooms and an air-conditioned community center.

"It's just a better location," he said.

Paul Caprioglio, City Council member for District 4, in which both parcels are located, called the Melody Park location "a great opportunity. "

"This is the first community garden, and there's more to come," he said. "We have basketball, tennis, baseball and now we have gardens here, including a children's garden, so the children can come here and learn how food is grown.

Caprioglio added that he has plans for tables and chairs, too, so people can enjoy the fruits of their labor under shade trees.

"And barbecues," he added. "Take your harvest and grill it."

The reporter can be reached at jguy@fresnobee. com or (559)441-6339.

have they check into

Has anyone in the Hmong community checked into Adverse Possession laws. They actually probably qualify to own the land if this law aplies to them. They can actually own the land without paying anythng for it, because they have planted crops and harvested them for 13 years there.
It sounds to me as if they qualify based on the requirements.
I hope that they have talked to a lawyer concerning their rights.

Type O

oops...meant to say

I don't think that many would disagree that our land around here is best used for growing vegetables and fruits, last time I checked you can't eat a police substation...

Public Land and Gardening/Farming

I think the point is that this is public land that was bought with money that was intended to support a park. I don't think that many would argue that our land around here is best used for growing vegetables and fruits, last time I checked you can't eat a police substation, nor do many people really want to relax or hang out there. This land should be used by the public, and the people that have put so much work into the gardens at the site shouldn't just be pushed off without some sort of decent alternative way to continue to maintain their connection to the land and the plants they grow. They do also feed their families and relatives this way, and would not be able to eat as well if the garden didn't exist.

All people have very deep connections to the land and to the crops that our people have grown. The Hmong Community Garden should be celebrated and more people should be encouraged to be able to grow their own food, especially when they can't afford or can't find this food otherwise.

I could say more, but I hope that provides decent food for thought for now.

Chuck McNally
Irish/Russian German/French-Fresnan

Doug you seriously need to

Doug you seriously need to stop using the word "they" since you believe that all Hmong people are guilty of the things you stated. And that has nothing to do with the orginal story. If if was never their land, why didn't the city kick them off when they first started gardening there, instead of now?

Go spread your hate somewhere else.

Here we go again with the guests calling names.

Maybe your relatives stole land or owned slaves but don't try to lay you guilt trip on me. My people had nothing to do with the sins or your people. So don't include us in your "we". As for the Hmong if they want the land let them buy it. The trouble is they have no respect for anyones property. Public or private. They go hunting bear and deer without legal hunting permits. They hunt on peoples private property. They illegaly hunt ducks, geese, and other birds in Roeding and Woodward Park. Enough is enough. After being here over 25 years they have no excuse to claim ignorance of the law. It was never thier land and to expect it to just be given to them is outrageous. How many of you would allow them to plant a garden in your backyard then just give them half your property?

Town Hall meeting on Wed (10/15)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:
Summer Vue sunrisevue@yahoo. com (559) 761-4439

Camille Russell camille.russell@ att.net (559) 862-8763, (559) 276-2592
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Hmong American Community Town Hall Meeting

· An invitation to speak for the preservation of the Hmong community garden in its present location

· Everyone is invited

· Fresno City Council Members and the Park and Recreation Department Director have been invited to listen and speak
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
When - Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 6:00 PM

Where - Faith Community Religious Facility
1495 N. Chestnut Ave. (Between Olive & McKinley) Fresno, CA 93703

This meeting has been called on short notice by concerned citizens who want to save the Hmong community garden in southeast Fresno on Belmont Ave. west of Clovis Ave. The City of Fresno has told the Hmong gardeners that they must leave November 1, 2008, so immediately action is required.

The purpose of the town hall meeting is to give residents an opportunity to tell city council members and the Director of the Park and Recreation Department why it is important to save the garden in its current location.

“We want everyone to come to the Town Hall Meeting on Wednesday. We are hoping for a good turn out of Hmong and members of the community at large. We are expecting several of the Hmong gardeners to be there to tell their stories and express their wishes. We want the community at large to explain why they support the garden and its gardeners,” said Summer Vue, a Hmong leader and Fresno Unified elementary teacher.

Following Diana Marcum’s October 1 Fresno Bee story (http://www.fresnobe e.com/263/ story/905324. html, video www.fblinks. com/pt6) about the Hmong garden, community members addressed the October 7, city council meeting. They asked that one of the council members carry a motion to “reconsider plans to demolish the 13 year old Hmong community garden in SE Fresno .” To date no council member has been willing to put this issue on the agenda for the next meeting.

More than 20 people showed up for a meeting at Cafe Corazon this past weekend about the garden. There were people from many different community organizations, concerned individuals, students from both Fresno City College and Fresno State, and Hmong community activists. The group agreed to support the 13 year old community garden in its present location.

Saturday night Summer Vue and Marina Yang brought the question of saving the Hmong community garden to Hmong listeners of KBIF 900 AM radio. For two hours listeners called non-stop with overwhelming support for the continuation of the garden at its current location.

“The Save the Hmong Community Garden group is calling on the community to contact city council members. Members Mike Dages, Henry T. Perea, and Jerry Duncan have voted against the current plan twice, but they were in the minority. We are asking them to put the item on the agenda again. Council members Blong Xiong, Cynthia Sterling, Brian Calhoun, and Paul Caprioglio have favored the current plan. We are asking them to listen to the community and hope they will change their position,” said Camille Russell, who addressed the city council regarding this issue on October 7.

Save the Hmong Community Garden organizers have plans to involve the community in the effort. Plans include flyering, announcements, contacts with community groups, a petition, and a call for attendance at the city council meeting at 8:30 AM on October 21.

though I agree with the comment that "it isn't their land"

I disagree that the Hmong should be kicked out or that that parcel can be turned into a police station just because we need one

Parks & Rec has a problem, the land was originally bought with a grant to buy "park land", the City can not turn around & transfer it several years later to the Police Dept, with out buying a like parcel to replace it as parkland

I'm not sure how they get the idea that if you get a grant for parkland, you can buy policeland instead, otherwise you got the grant under false pretenses

we need more urban gardens, I'm all for more parks, maybe we should turn some ponding basins into rice paddies, I like that idea
the police station can go anywhere else, it doesn't have to go exactly in that parcel, because it is supposed to be a park
"it ain't over, til it's over", Yogi Berra

to the comment above.. well

to the comment above.. well its like us Americans coming over seas and taking over this land that we now called the US from the natives.. like you commented "you cant just go onto someoneless land and take it over." well we did exactly that. so in other words your being hypocritical.

I'd be willing to listen if it was thier land

But this is not thier land.
They just set up a garden on City land and then expect the City to hand it over to them.
If they want it let them buy it. In the United States you just can not go on to someonelses land and take it over.
They are trying to play the victim when it was never thier land in the first place.