No worries eh. We walkies had our bit of fun. Still trying to get my wife to join by the way... And where the hell are the pics I too for you all?

I meant Kaleb! i swear, im bad with names.
and im sorry i left you behind. i get tunnel vision when it comes to derby so i got a little carried away. Sorry, Kaleb.

Tell Tale isn't Micah... but thanks for confusing us... he's cooler than I am anyways...

Sadly, this just got uglier as it went along. Fortunately, there's alway OOTV! Thanks Micah(telltale) and Eric (OOTV) and TinaMom for understanding the heart of this post.
We can all sit and call names, myself included but really that just leads to ignorance. Applying a cities problems to one race only adds to the ignorance and racism that so many people hide behind.
The truth of the matter is that BLACK, MEXICAN, ASIAN and *gasp* WHITE folks are all guilty of committing crimes. I work in an environment where i deal with criminals every day. Based on race, the statistics would shock you. but why even go there? that would lead right back to discrimination. the fact still remains that crime knows no color and criminals come in all shapes, sizes, and ethnicity.
lets rid ourselves of viewing situations in terms of color and focus on a solution.
as for me growing up!!!! Hmmmph! NEVER!

okay, couple 'for the records,' here.

Johne -thanks for the info regarding the area. (funny I just met a guy a few minutes ago who was raised on this street until '05.)

We do have the paint crews (the city ones,) by all the time.
There was brief stretch there where the tagging was getting quite heavy -and nothing was being done about it, but calls into the anti-graffitti folks a couple of years ago resulted in some pretty direct lines and some pretty interesting information about the neighborhood.
-Regrettably, some of the taggers are more than 'taggers,' and we do have some pretty strong waves of significant gangs living in the area, (from time to time the cops round them up and bust them.)

Regarding the younger kids?, -yeah, some of them are wannabees, but it's kind of hard to decipher -nor go the extra miles to 'authenticate,' whether somebody's actually part of a gang (jumped in fer real,) or just a local street group -when they are demostrating the same behaviors.
The disheartening aspect of it would be, they are quite young, and reeeeeally violent, (and yeah, I do see it handed down from older siblings and parents, (basically they just stand there and scream at the kids and freak out on them on the sidewalk... it ain't pretty.

It's interesting to see how other neighborhoods deal with the behaviors, but I personally feel working within the law as best. (In otherwords, I feel working with the police on issues is the best way to go.)
-That would be when you have truly criminal behaviors going on, (I recognize that there are some cultural differences and how people hang,
-that to me doesn't always constitute a crime, NOR do I see people from one particular skin tone of background more likely to commit crimes than others. Interestingly enough, on my street it's pretty mixed, (which is one of the things I like about it,) --and folks act either good or bad depending on their own choices to do so -not due to any sort of ethnicity or financial genre.

In no way would I advocate vigilanteism.
-defending yourself in the event of an attack is one thing, but vigilanteism is another.

Are there people on both sides of (whatever color line) you want to draw who are racist and loaded with hatred towards others (and themselves?) Yeah.
I think there always will be, and I think no matter how many programs and attempts at 'blending,' and seeing everybody as being equal and with any sense of grace and mercy,
---you can't demand it, you can't legislate it, and the best you're going to get out of some folks is peace through some sort of separatism, or (when they're not separate,) tolerance.
The weird thing of it is: There are folks who 'go there,' socially just for the potential clash and warfare, -yet will complain about the 'attacks,' when, in truth, it's no different than going to a bar where fights are known to break out, you wind up in one, and it's like '...gee, I was just minding my own business.' (duh.)

I do feel, however, despite the failures of some to let go of their hatred of others,
that we (as individuals) and as families, streets, towns, (etc. etc.) need to keep trying -because giving up (at this point,) is not ignorance or fear of others --but choosing not to do what is right,
---and just letting things decay.

I do know this:
It's a lot easier to look at others with hatred and fear, and view them as the source of societies ills, -than to realize that most people (and when I say most, I mean MOST,) really want some semblance of a peaceful life, to coexist with their neighbors, make friends with whomever they wish,
--and certainly not grow up being 'nervous,' around people who are different from them.

Do I (personally,) struggle with the more esoteric and easy to see differences between myself (a pretty good sized white guy in his mid-forties,) and others who act differently than me
-be it in terms of violence, abuse of others, abuse of property, and illegal behavior?
Yeah, sometimes I do, and there have been times in my life where I've caught myself looking at 'those people,' and easily summing up the problem with a muttered epithet that was based upon the easiest to see,
(but, surprisingly? it can run across the board and include folks of my own race, age, gender, neighborhood, (etc.)

---And I have to catch myself and realize that it's beginning to change my way of looking at these individuals, turning them into some 'group.'
--And then I begin to look (not) at their behaviors as being the problem -but 'them,' as being nothing more than the sum of their behaviors.

At that time?
If I want to be honest: I see them no longer as people, and they are reduced to little more than their improper behavior.
-And that's wrong and sick.

I'd like to say that it's easier to see people (even those who have issues,) as better,
-and not view them with disdain when I
'live among them,'
(vs.)
'live in a community of only my kind,' (or, as I lived in an area so remote beforemoving here surrounded by a lot of 'nobody.'

-But the truth of the matter is:
It's a state of mind first in that individual is in from the start.
You have to resolve with yourself how you are going to view others, -and hold to that,
('cause, if you live 'surrounded,' by 'them,' --you're going to live in fear and hate everybody all the time,
-or-
if you never see them, -and only hang with your own kind? You'll still hate anything different -when you encounter them, (and there really isn't anywhere left anymore where simply 'one kind,' of people live.

Further?
Read stuff like 'Lord of the Flies,' or the journals on any 'perfect,' 'test,' or 'biosphere' communities that are created and documented.
Even the best selected groups will tear each other to shreds, -unless they choose to follow a common code of right and wrong, -and choose to respect others within that code.

I have found this:
-and it's seems to be cyclical and following of a trend throughout world history.

When times get tough, there has always been a need for a scapegoat.
Regardless of whether it's been a race, a religious belief, a country, a town, an individual
-it doesn't matter.

There are times where, yeah, -people (sometimes even large groups of people,) do things to make our lives miserable and need to be stopped.

-But there are also other times where people have put on them the weight of every horrible thing that has ever happened (be it to a town, a country, a neighborhood, -even an individual life,) --and that people (or person) gets to take the blame of everything wrong -including the weather, since the first blameshifting in the garden of eden.
-Considering we're going (as a nation,) into some really heavy economic surf? Expect a lot of folks to need to find a lot of 'reasons,' to hate others, -and find all sorts of justification for it.

Nothing will grow or change so long as we look at others as being the source of our problems, -and deciders of our outcome.
(In any way.)

If religion was once called the 'opiate of the masses.'
-Blaming others (simply because they exist,) for how our lives turn out, and what we do (daily?) is the widespread caffiene everybody craves, -and more destructive than meth.

And like any destructive addictive thing, it leaves us burnt out, going nowhere, and simply waiting to die, -just not knowing how or when it's going to happen.

Regarding the neighborhood concern (violent playgrounds and such.)

I think we all know what is 'common sense.'

I credit any mother (including Tina, who started the string,) with knowing 'this is bad, this is unsafe, we need to get out of here and do something.'
-and would encourage anyone to heed that most basic instinct: Use the sense God gave you, if you smell danger, get out of there, (sure, piss and gripe about it later, and let folks know, ---but don't jeopardize yourself or your family.)

The rest of the community?
I still feel (fundamentally,) that following 'the rules,' of society, (meaning in this case, that you don't take the law into your own hands,) -not only addresses the wrongs correctly, -but reinforces doing so within the codes of ethics and integrity.
-Does it mean that things will get better overnight?
No.
In fact, things may even get worse, (in some ways,)

But the individual doing what's right, maintaining some sort of integrety at their core, and moving in the correct direction? (at least,) is harder to stop, or render hopeless.
And still makes a positive impact on others in their community and their families.

Tell Tale: you ask good questions, you (obviously,) have a good heart on things, and I see no reason to have anything but a happy future, -especially with a young wife and moderate guitar skills (and excellent choices in terms of poetry, candles, and flower pedals... -a sly dog beyond your years -justly rewarded early... I hope the two of you make it to 100, -because there will be so many things you will see (that I will not,) and so many things you'll be able to tell others.

TinaMom: Thanks for posting this concern.
A community needs to understand where it's got problems, and a person going through something such as this by themself, and feeling 'overwhelmed,' honestly can loose hope in a situation, -and that can result in living afraid, and feeling 'boxed in.'
I agree that there are concerns here in this area, and feel that people being able to talk about them is healthy, (despite who chimes in,) Again, I'd go with the 'common sense,' route, --and think it may be good to hear the opinions of others who are in the area, and what they are going through. You might even consider relocating if things are (honestly,) that bad, as I think the safety of your family is a lot more important than some allegiance to a neighborhood. (Houses are just places for people to live, and if you're not living happy in a house or an area, -and it's (honestly,) like wrestling an elephant by yourself? Consider the cost of each battle, you have nobody to answer to but your own concience.

Joey: (as always,) I feel very positively about you as a person, admire your courage, your insights, your success, your sense of humor, and your heart. (but you know this,) -See the bugs on your windshield for what they are, gross, -but not obscuring what you want and need to see, -and where you need to go. (as always, you are in my prayers.)

Orange Bear:
Think what you want about my choice to believe in a Just and Loving God.
My hopes for or regarding you would be that you find peace in your own way, be relieved of this painful line of reason that seems to pervade your every post, (and seriously, that this would come soon.)
I do find your writings to be highly disturbing, and would hope, that if you choose to act upon your various stances and (seeming,) endless venom? That the authorities would intevene before you are successful at injuring anyone, (including yourself,) and that no further harm comes to anyone.

Actually Orange Bear (may I refer to you as O-Bizzle?), La Chola is pretty cool. I had the opportunity to hang with her tonight for a short while... (though she seemed to forget the walkers...)

Seems to me like one might want to get to know someone before they actually judge them... Blanket statements don't usually turn out well...

And in terms of people acting shitty? I'm not sure who threw the whole racist thing out there... I'm too tired to read all the comments. But maybe (this is a long shot, I know) there was a misunderstanding? O-Bizzle, are you racist? (serious question I think people want answered) and did you mean for it to sound racist when you referred to "person A" as Jamal?

Bam, Tell Tale has just asked two questions that should end this ridiculous debate.

Twenty years old and I'm the one handling this mess?

however, I believe in personal responsibility and am full of what we call Righteous Anger. Not all of us were brought up in 2.5 family Clovis homes but we can still believe in Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. It's wrong to steal an elderly man's bike. It's wrong to spray paint your neighborhood.
And by the way, what is happening in our beloved Tower District lately? Punched in the face while walking down the street? Skateboard in the face -how many stitches to sew that up? Jumped on the Maroa "alley". Someone stole my tires? Someone stole my car? Someone stole all my stuff out of my car? WTF? Hey OrangeBear no mothership to save us now, I say, cause I live here and LOVE it what will we do for ourselves?

OrangeBear!...Let the police shoot them? Hell fucking NO! I love my neighborhood BUT there is a fine line between the Police and a Police State and I'm guessing that in a Police State you would be one of the first one to go.
Be careful what you ask for.

Compassion and empathy are two very great swords and I wield them with insight each and every day. Help those that will benefit and let those that that won't follow their path. Knowing there but for the grace of whatever Gods go I.
We all have our own lessons to learn. Even me and Even you OrangeBear. I could go on but my cat is walking on my keyboard, and BTW making more sense than OrangeBear could ever do.

did this thread become about hatred? i had a valid parental concern for the safety of my children (and yours!)...don't turn this into a place to spew your venom.

Tina
www.fresnofamily.com
www.mommychats.com

This is why I stopped being a Republican.

Most religions are all about mind control and money!
Enjoy your cookies and pay no attention to the child molesting priests.
Now relax and drink the Kool Aid.
The mothership will come shortly to take you through Heavan's Gate.
Marshall Applewhite and Jim Jones are waiting for you.

Trouble is these old vato locos and locas never grow up.
They still talk and act like they are in middle school esse.
I even worked at a school one time where the kitchen manager was 50 but talked and acted like she was Vata Loca in the hood.
Then she wondered why her two sons were so messed up.
Theses are the type that defend Lil Jamal and Lil Puppy's right to steal things from your yard.
Anybody that won't let them steal your stuff is a RACIST!
Stuff can be replaced their life can't.
I say let the Police shoot more of them.
Two Lil Jamal's tried to steal my dads bike one time.
They were 12 or 13.
My dad had a big Master Lock on his bike with a thick chain.
He knocked their teeth out.
Boy was laying there crying his bubby ran for it.
I guess they learned not to steal bikes.
Run home boy tell your mama you tried to an steal old white mans bike and he knocked yo teef out!
But then I don't see white people trying to steal bikes or white people climbing over locked fences to steal patio furniture at 4 in the morning.
I personally have had to beat down some of these old Vato's in my hood.
They think a white guy should be scared of them till you drop them with one punch.
But when they are drunk or high they think they are the badest thing around.
As for La Chola my offer to help set up a camp for street people in your backyard still stands.
Maybe that free needle group will come over pass out clean needles to them.
Lets see you react to these creatures shooting up and unrinating in your yard.
Lets see if you can sit there and stay calm as they play with themself in front of your child or grandchild.
But no you don't want that.
Not in your backyard.
It's ok if they do it somewhereelse and in front of other peoples kids.
Just like the drunks street perverts that hang out at the Laundry mat on Butler between 4th and 5th.
But then it's their right to urinate on the sidewalk and expose and touch themself as the Winchell Elementary School children walk past.
To complain about them to the police is "RACIST" because they are from Mexico and we must tolerate their behavior.
BS this is America and grown men don't do that in front of little kids!
It might be aceptable down there but not here!
Anyone that defends that behavior is sick and just as guilty as those pervert!
I'm willing to bet La Chola is the type that would even defend a certain "Father" that the jury said was GUILTY.
I promise you if I faced him and his associates they'd run for the door!
I even had one of his supporters tell me He is a good man,He would never do that!
Obviously she didn't know the real "Father" that I know..
It's time to start executing these child molesters.
Or let them babysit La Chola's or Phil Donahue's grandkids.
They are the ones that defend them.
So let them care for them!
Better yet Grow Up or Shut Up!

I wasnt addressing you.

You missed the point of the entire discussion to pull that one little piece out?

Priorities.

I lived in the 3300 block of Sierra Madre for almost 20 years ending in 2002.

Trust me, I know what a few of you are going through, and it is cyclical. Getting out there and fighting the graffiti only to have it tagged again 3 days later is a real pain, and being seen out there by the little thugs doing it only makes it worse, and possibly dangerous for you.

My advice, call the Fresno PD's graffiti hotline, 621-Tags, and report it. They'll photograph it, keep track of it, and arrest these losers. And their response time is usually within 24 hours to paint it over.

Saves you the trouble and gives them info to get rid of the problem at its source.

Most of the tagging, believe it or not, is NOT gang related. A ridiculous majority of tagging isn't...more than 80%. It's done by tagging crews, whose sole purpose in life is to vandalize. They're usually wanna-be gang members, but not the real thing.

If you feel unsafe...the simple answer is to move. Money sometimes makes that an impossibility, but keeping one's eyes open to opportunities sometimes pays off. Those apartments there aren't the only ones in town.

Why are you so ignorantly racist?
As if only "Jamal" steals and fights.
Please dont procreate. please.

Sorry Patrick, but the percieved value of life, and optimism that 'you' had growing up has dimished severely all 'round the globe, had done so into the sixties and seventies, and has gotten even worse in the past thirty.
-Someday, aside from going after light rail stats
-look up such beauts as pre-teen rates on everything from sexual activity, transmissible disease, diagnosis of mental illness, and suicide rates.
This mess is moving quicker and with more force than an elephant motor in a Deuce -with traction.

With all due respect for your ever-present plea for need of mass transit on rails or mag-lev

--There have (now three)generations who have been raised to be completely befuddled in everything from:
-How to love, why to marry, how to stay married, how to raise kids, how to instill any sense of hope and what to do with one's gifts as a human being, how to view others of different gender, race, varying identities (etc.)

-The glimmer of hope in it?

God doesn't let us run off to our ruin, -and the ruination of others in society without one heck of a fight.
(Which is kind of an innacurate depiction of God, to be truthful, as, well if they ARE God, they can accomplish anthing they want, and turn the hearts of anyone, regardless.

--folks are able to transcend the hobbling of both their own, and their parents choices.

In short:
Just as the Book says: 'No longer will you say that because your parents drank sour wine in the wilderness that your teeth are on edge...' (So nobody has to have their futures dictated by their past or those who raised them.)

NOW:
-Most folks?
Regrettably are tidal, follow trends and really don't understand how to change their lives and have much of a hope, (Sorta acting like plankton, or, more pleasantly? Just Sheep. -My gut on this? we're all sheep in need of a shepherd...)

--Some older ones?
Know all about this, still play dumb, reject healing, and the different behaviors required,
-or have things so wonderfully compartmentalized that they can chameleon their way through almost anything,
---all the while corroding and collapsing from within.

--The nice part of all that?
God heals from the inside out, and nothing is too great a diddle for Him to undoo.
---So yeah, in a way, people are people and the hope remains the same.

But the kicker???

Again, you three generations, (... Your parents, Your generation, My generation, now we're coming up on those younger....)
--Who've learned how to 'run the board,' declaring
'truths and how to be,' feigned obedience, telling their peers and kids how to be devout and follow
---yet don't believe in it themselves,

--which, quite effectively bridles and neutralizes whatever changes that are needed... (Act one way Sunday, Act another Monday Thru Sat.)
-resulting in even the best answers reduced to nothing more than mere hogwash and hypocracy.

--And that's just among the church.
(Why do you think Christians are so despised in this town?)

Again, though, Nice part?
Double standard people with hearts all encased in stone and heads made of leather are no match for a loving Savior...
....hmmmm, so that part is no different than the fabulous fifties either, eh?

There's a hope in this that has not changed, - but things have gotten worse in a lot of ways, (doesn't reduce the truth of the hope, however.)

On the one side:
---You have a town full of 'Christians,' who boomed out and 'got saved,' in the Jesus movement (late sixties-early seventies,)
---who, (some) have grown in all areas of their lives, and have lived out honestly in all areas before their God and their beliefs,
---and their children and peers have seen peace, guidance and healing demonstrated no matter HOW messed up their homelife and their town has been... (Cool)

On the other side:
---You have a town full of 'Christians,' who 'got saved,'
---yet when life did not go 'as (thought to be) promised,' ceased to trust, and lived a double standard,
-thereby raising their kids and showing their peers 'Christianity as just another angle, lever, or stance,' ---but not life changing and that relationship someting to 'abide,' in.

Want a good example of how that goes?

Look at King Saul... (He was a beaut.) ...poor guy knew the truth, yet refused to give in to God, finally went completely crackers and did far more destruction than good...
(Did it stop God's plans? No...
---but look how everybody suffered in that.)

Just like there is a whole new spectrum of medication resistant diseases (because we've built up immunities,) --There really are a lot of folks who think and act like providence is some sort of 'belief,' or 'option.')

With the 'Do as I Say, Not as I Do,' types?
--You have folks seeing through that, (Adults, then their kids,)
---who really don't believe in hope, really don't see much of a future,
-and really have no incentive to live past their own appetites and thrill seeking,
---who have parents that threw in what thin dishtowels they had to start with,
---because their own parents couldn't get their poop in a group, and actually 'parent.'

---So those kids, (actually those 'grandkids,') basically live fast, die young, and often don't leave good looking corpses...

Another example in a nutshell?
Look at the Mob.
-Used to be, some of these old Cosa Nostra buzzards were making it to be old men and dying in their seventies, eighties, (etc.)
-Now? ('now,' being as of at least twenty years ago,)
-a Russian (modern) Gangster is considered 'old,' if he's in his thirties,
-and anyone who deals with organized crime will confirm, a lot of the old 'rules,' really don't apply, it's ruthless and very flash in the pan.

This mentality is starting thorough and heavy by the fifth grade, in some cases the third (that's Eight Years Old,)
THAT is what I started seeing in the eyes of kids who were raised in this
And that was back in the early eighties and nineties,

--and I sure see it now. (in both kids of color and lil' white haters too... sorry, everybody wore THOSE shoes.)

(Maybe you never heard of such things as 'wilding,' which began to happen twenty years ago,
and such more recent phenoms as 'lethal girl-gangs.'
-And, again, these are people of color and whites (in all financial brackets, btw.)

Sorry, but anyone who looks at what is happening to people, and how it's going on younger and younger, --and says 'it's no different?,'
--Is either not seeing what is happening (in Fresno and everywhere else.)
-Or was simply raised in hell to begin with.
(And I know you were not raised in hell, sir...)

The hope?

Well, there's always God... (Yeah, Yeah, I know, not fashionable, and way played out in these here parts,
--but I've always felt it better to seek Christ than fellow Christians for hope, good thing He's still wandering around the 'no knocking on doors, looking to enter and be with any who open, (never leave, etc. etc.)

And
(for those who are like: 'agggggh, Religion, go away....'

---there's a lot of folks (believers or not,) who recognize the failings of their ancestors (no matter how best intentioned,) ---who are actively trying to restore some sense of dignity to the world, -one soul, one family at a time...

And there is, in all honesty, a newer generation (some of them quite young, late teens, early twenties, who,
---though in some ways far more cynical than you and I combined, (now, is'nt THAT a poison...)

-in some ways, want change and are recognizing early death and battery-acid quality mentality and ways of their peers, (and sometimes their own parents,) and are like:
'...um, no I want to live and do something healthy.'

It doesn't happen so rarely that you'd say 'screw it' and become a Nihlist,
---but it doesn't happen so often that the obvious downward spiral is suddenly masked and confused with some nostalgic
'...ah, it's been like this for years, always has been always will be...'

But, again, if you want to see something startling, look at the rise in self-death from the Elderly, down to those who are just starting to come into 'middle aged,'
-and tell me that it doesn't have an impact on those who are younger, looking up, and seeing a lot of people (who are supposed to be providing guidance or some sort of example that life is worth living,) when they're checking out on any semblence of acceptable or healthy social behaviors and life itself -because they don't believe the hope or the hype.)

It sounds grim, but truthfully?
There is still nothing like knowing that there's a God with us that has all these and so many other demons whupped, like over two thousand years ago...

(Sounds crazy to some, but I personally believe the Devil and his minions are on a leash...
(Hard to see when you have adolescents and pre-adolescents carving each other up in a park... but hope is not always immediately seen with the naked eye.)

Orange Bear:
-Seriously babe,
-you sound like you're in a lot of pain.
I hope, just in a very basic human sense, this subsides sooner than later.
I'd recommend a decent pot of coffee, a bag of cookies and a pocket new testament in a quiet place...
-Just read, pray, and let God go to work on you a bit...
Hate like you've got to be feeling inside?
Ever see the movie 'Aliens?,'
--yeah, like that.

In the end it only destroys you after making you miserable for a long long time.
So:
Here's to a (non) movie ending (the poor souls in the film simply begged to be put to death, rather than remain hosts to such vile things...)
It doesn't have to be so hellish:
Take the cure, surrender your heart, you got a creator who really has better things in mind.

(It worked for me, and I'm not into lying to people... straight up.)

-Bless the two of you

-E

Kids of today are different? They fought then in gangs, the gangs had school colors. Bullard and Clovis had a huge rivalry for years, it was considered normal and encouraged as school spirit.

While attending Clovis High I heard the story of one of the pranks that took place in the late 50s. One of the students put a stick of dynamite in another student’s locker. Boom… it blew the lockers off of the wall and serious damage to one of the buildings. The student got kicked out of school for two weeks.

I think the kids are the same, the administration seems freaked out now days. Now days you’ll be fired as a teacher if you’re politically incorrect, nearly put in prison for smoking a cigarette.

Some how this relates to a light-rail system… maybe not.

Then it was just rowdy teens.
Now its lil thugs that think they are mighty and should be feared.
The mall is a place of business not for criminals.
Just look at Manchester Center and all the gang members and drug dealers at the bus area.
With everything leaving Manchester there is nothing left for them to steal or shoplift.
I bet theft is down at Long's now that they moved.
Dollar Tree loses tousands a month.
Its pathetic the lowlifes shoplift from a dollar store.
Fashion Fair is not designed for gangs and criminals.
It is for business and people that spend money.
You won't see the teen age gang members and thugs roaming Granite Park.
They won't let them in.
The businesses there will be fore the big spenders.
You wont see the homies, ghetto rats, and raidr nation criminalos in those businesses.
They will have dress codes and real bouncers.
Not JT's Fresno rent a fools.
As for the KKK up in the mountains,
I rather have them as my neighbors then most of the Fresno's trash.
Atleast they won't hop the fence and steal benches off your porch or patio funiture and garden tools from your back yard.
In Freso you have to chain even the back patio furniture down.
But it is fun to watch them hop the fence to steal it.
Then when they find out its chained down to sic the dog on them.
Not as easy to get back over the fence when the dog has a hold of your behind is it?
Lets see officer my gates locked and I have Beware of Dog signs.
What was Lil Jamal doing in my yard at 1 AM?
He doesnt even live on this block.
LOL

It's hard not to get philosophical with stuff like this,(and I mean that in the most positive sense.)

I mean, back in 'Jersey, coming up in the sixties and seventies:
-I was raised in a public school in a very small town, and to be honest, it kinda sucked, (not because it was boring, -but because it was a very rough town and there was a lot of really bad stuff going on, drugs in particular... we didn't have 'rock,' we had heroin, LSD, PCP, and Speed.

-I went to a public Jr. Hi, ---freakin hated that even more (new kid there, etc.)
--but then again, I think you're supposed to hate Jr. High...

-I went to a Christian Private School for a few years, --and found the 'worst,' kids from the public school -sent there to 'straighten out,'
----end result?
Wheras there were some kids that were really great from really excellent Spirit filled and peaceful homes. ---ther were also kids who were into 'playing church,' --while acting worse than the 'public school kids...' -so much for 'positive environment,' in a way.

Final landing point?
Public school HighSchool down by the Jersey Shore,
---and to be honest??? Prolly one of the best educations and experiences in life I could have wished for... just regular normal folks,
(yes, drugs, partying, violence and such here and there...)
-But if you didn't want to be a part of that, you were not forced to, and there was stuff to do besides 'stay out of trouble.'

----but being in 'the real world,' I learned to negotiate real life, grow in my faith, but also learned how to be somebody who could be with anybody (even a complete deadhead (I was not one, yet,(am now,,,)
who was sitting there mixing my colors, as we painted murals down town and he's like:
'...um, I know you're into Jesus and stuff, but seriously, the blotter really brings out the blues and the reds man,,, but it's cool just hanging with ya, ya know...'
I was like: '...cool here, to, bro, here, have some of this peanut butter and honey sandwich my Step-Mom made for us..'
--PS
-first time I ever heard 'Workingman's Dead,' -and it will forever be a golden time...
-Wonder what ever happened to my buddy?
Dunno.

Looking at it?

People should not be hot-house flowers.

Even if they're very conservative and very 'not-of-the-world,' types.
---people still have to know how to interract and see the good and the bad in life, know what to do with both, and understand that just because somebody is 'one of those,' --no matter what one of 'those,' is? --There is always going to be something positive to that person, their culture, their lives, -and we need to understand how to see that.

--So, yeah, the answer 'to move away to whitey-whiteville where everything is just ducky...'
-really is
A.) a myth and
B.) deprives kids of really getting to know the world around them.

---The 'play date,' thing is cool, and I think that's a great way for your kids to hang with others...
(I didn't have 'play dates... but I was raised back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I had my trusty Schwinn Stingray to get me from where I was to where I wanted to be, and hang with my friends... (but it was a different world, and I could usually go faster than the druggies.)

However:

I don't think it's a good idea to 'expose,' children, ---adults even,
-to things that are traumatic and horrifying, just so that they can 'have a taste of reality.'
--It's like taking them to an electrocution so they can understand why they need to pay parking tickets... Or sitting down fourteen year olds to watch 'Trainspotting,' and be like: '...okay, THIS'll straighten you're naieve little arse out...'

I believe that life will be vicious and difficult enough, in it's own way, given time,
---that you don't need to go deliberately seeking out awful,
---and ruin what innocence and purity a mind has.

So, thinking about where you want to live, who you spend time with (publically, etc.) -DOES make a lot of sense.

I mean, a friend of mine recently had their child come across two other kids going down on each other at school, (all the same sex,) and the kid is just barely past 6.
(The kids going down on each other were slightly older,)

--When I was that age?
---actually, even a few years older, years older,
-you may have somebody playing 'doctor,' or something,
---but not doing stuff like that.

It IS a different world,
-and there has to be a bit of guarding little johnny and janie from the things that are going to affect them and traumatize them soon enough.
(Do I think kids should be naieve about sexuality and what's going on in the world? Before a certain age and point of maturity? ABSOLUTELY! (and I don't think there is a blanket 'time,' for this sort of thing, each kid is different.)

--After a point, sure, be honest with them, and help them to cope, but up to then? If the kids want to believe in the Stork, (if asked,) and spend all their time playing with crayons, stuffed animals and Briar Horses? Praise God...
The difficult and complex stuff in life will come soon enough,
let them enjoy their worlds untainted for a while...

I think that's kind of the swirl in the icecream that we need to find.

Yeah, this place seemingly seems to be getting worse and nastier over the more recent decades...

You can't raise stupid people (nobody is asking anyone to do that,)
---But there has to be a sense of protecting young hearts and minds, -cultivating their creativity, and preserving their sense of innocence as long as possible... I personally think as an adult, that's one of my jobs, and my duty.
My parents tried to do that for me, I have a responsibility to provide that back.

-This does not always mean 'finding a better neighborhood means better domestic life,' -we can go rent a John Hughes film to confirm that, (some of us were raised in them... n'fact.)
-But I think staying away from whirlpools does not make one a wussy swimmer... just smart.

(A kid who just wants to play on some playround equipment does not have to surrender that because somebody else wants to brandish a boxcutter and yell foul epithets about the female gender...)

Regarding 'the foothills.'

-Well, to be honest, there is a heightened degree of racism in this area, (Fresno, etc, in general,)
and I've written about it (gee wasn't THAT fun,)

--and yes, it's kind of a known fact, (universally,) that folks who really don't like mixing it up with 'urban folks,'
--who need to wear a LOT of sunblock,
tend to move 'outside of town... as far away from 'them,' as usual.

That's a problem too,

---but then again, it's an issue of how pervasive and overwhelming that factor actually is.
Not everybody is going to be like that, (hopefully,)
-but if they are? find out first and simply not go there.

If you live in an area where all people of color are spoken of like they're animals, and referring to them as 'niggers, and beaners' is an accepted practice, -move...
you're swimming in amonia...

--but then again,

if you're 'really innercity,' and you have everbody referring themselves and each other as 'sup, my niggah.' --that's not exactly healthy either.

I've (personally,) found that probably the best barometer would be to see (not just,)
-how 'open minded,' a community is,
-but also how independently minded, (how 'thinking,' they are,)
-as well as how pragmatic they are,
plays a major role.

If you have folks who are open minded, yet have no 'street,' or common sense?, they're almost like pigeons walking across the highway...

-If they know how to make that work, and are encouraged to really think and develop their skills, --that's hope.

--That education and experience will provide them and others a genuine path in that they can grow beyond their 'caste,'
-and interract with others way past such things as 'skin tone,' 'financial,' and 'neighborhood,' orientation.
(I'm not saying that they don't learn to see each other's differences, -I'm saying that they learn to appreciate and enjoy each other's differences and benefit from them, -THAT's truly integrating and being in a blended society.)

There was a bumper sticker that I used to see back home (upstate NY) and it said:
'...kids who learn to hunt, trap, and fish, don't grow up to mug little old ladies.'

Now, I'm sure the vegans just freaked...
-but the point was,
with a good sense of self, a good sense of responsibility and interraction with one's surroundings,
-with a strong bond and respect for nature and things that inspire beauty AND command respect,
-comes a sense of humility and peace.

You can find that anywhere,
-but it's sometimes a better fit for some in some environments than others.

To be really honest?
Whenever I see a kid, anywhere, -especially in a situation where there is such obvious impact and danger all around them, I pray like crazy.
I figure, if God is sculpting them, and cares for their hearts and minds more than I do (by a ton,) at least when I'm concerned, He's like:
'...yep, I know, I'm on it, you be nice to 'em, and you're part of them having a good day... I'LL deal with crooked Lou in the corner over there...'

There have been 'Kid Gangs' (under 18) hanging at that mall since the mid late 1980s that I remember, and sometimes there are fights, I doubt the security will ever do anything until someone gets really hurt or killed or a gun goes off.

Give the youth something better to do than hang out at a mall... how about some programs that teach music or other arts.

i am on the other side of shaw, north of the mall..and while i don't feel a gang presence here, we do feel close to it. our street is pretty quiet, thank heavens.

we don't know any of the kids on our street...they pretty much stay indoors...no one really plays on the street that i can see. but that's ok cuz we have playdates with friends elsewhere or here, so my kids don't know the difference...and this also means that if any of the kids in my neighborhood are banger wannabes, i don't know about it cuz i have no contact with them and never even see them for the most part. save for the obnoxious driver of a low rider that likes to drive down the street with his rap music cranked so it rattles all my windows. (*sigh*)

there was a time when we had police helicopters circling our neighborhood at least a couple times a week. and we've had drugs run through a nearby neighbor's house that we found out about after the fact. luckily they all moved out and whatever was bringing the helicopters seems to have died down. that was frightening. i think most of whatever was happening with the helicopters might have been coming from the apartments to the west of here, on fresno st just north of shaw. they have some pretty run-down places over there and i'm told there's a lot of criminal activity there.

all this stuff really seriously makes me want to move away. but where to go? seems like this stuff is everywhere. we have considered heading up the foothills some though...coarsegold or oakhurst. feels safer to me. but then i've heard there's a KKK presence there. *shudder*

ah if only the whole world could be a friendly place to raise children!

Tina
www.fresnofamily.com
www.mommychats.com

just noticed that was you!

*waving*

Tina
www.fresnofamily.com
www.mommychats.com

(it's cool, I'm not disagreeing with Andy...)

What I was focussing on was the issue of 'the playground' and dealing with gangs and such in those areas.
--Not talking about boycotting a mall or anything (that I think is excessive and the wrong way to go about it... (again,) I agree with Andy on that...

There is something about this particular area (I live just on the other side of Fashion Fair to the East, --where there has been a lot of upheaval and increased activity.

---It's just a turbulent area, and I'm concerned for folks with kids.
-My neighbors kids are not safe here
-My g.f.'s kids (and she lives slightly south, are also kind of at risk,
-though her neighborhood is hanging on and a little quieter.)
As a guy now thinking of (not just) a woman whom I'm in love with, ---but her kids (who... okay, I'm in love with too... different sort of love, y'know...) I see it way differently than when it was just me rumbling along.

The scarey part (not to be alarmist,)
Is:
I'm one street over from a huge (middle school?) I think it is, and not far from an elementary,
-yet the banger activity is pretty major, we have shots fired around here quite often, and it's a known street for buying dope. (There have been also break-ins of late...)

Last Fall a guy had two pit-bulls cut loose from his property, one of them actually had an employee up on the security fence over at Aetna, (she was all scratched up, trying not to get eaten)
--and the dog (having found its way onto a school bus,) -was finally shot (I believe both dogs were shot,) by an officer, (as the thing lunged to bite him.) ---all this right out side of a middle school.

But the kids on my street already have pretty serious maladptive behaviors showing, there's gun play (even though it's airrifles,)
-and loads of violence and vandalism going on regarding them,
---and they're sometimes no older than Eight or Nine.
(-With a lot of older brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles (in some cases parents,) all already hooked up into some pretty illegal mannerisms.
What's interesting is: even kids and adults not 'in gangs,' per-se, --emulate and act out 'gang' behavior. --And a 'wanna-be,' with a knife is still a problem (see word: 'knife.')

I personally would not raise my kid here, and, though I have some great friends and such who have kids of their own (and would love them to be my neighbors again,) --anybody who moves out of here who has children, as far as I can see, is doing something smart.

Some recent Apex's:

Not more than a year ago, a big 'holiness church,' had a rally right on the street (giving away bikes and such, -looking to 'instill hope in a troubled area.'

--and just last week, I heard the clip-clop of a clydesdale, looked out the window and saw the Pastor (who also happens to be a cowboy,) slowly riding down the street. --very cool guy, I met him over a year ago, -He rides where he feels the Lord 'has told him that he's needed to spread some peace,'
-and has three different 'heavy,' horses that he rides through 'gang' areas in.
...so it's kind of like: 'yep, we've arrived as a 'hood.'

(Kinda goes into a different issue: --Can you anchor or revitalize a bad neighborhood (and should you do this with kids in tow?)
In this section, people with kids here live here because they have no other real options... But I can see that they're not happy with it, and usually, as soon as something better opens up, -they jet.)

but just want to point to the update link above...it appears the fight mentioned initially may not have been a gang fight. this is, however, still a serious issue. so i do enjoy reading your thoughts on gang violence.

i agree that it might be giving up to not go there, but i'm a mom first and foremost and i won't be going anywhere that i don't feel safe with my children.

that said, i have been assured that security will be beefed up at the mall, particularly around the kid play area...we'll see if that holds true. i would be interested to hear what y'all witness at the mall. please post a comment to the blog above so we can all track the situation in one place.

thank you!

Tina
www.fresnofamily.com
www.mommychats.com

I am one of those that consider moving to another mall as giving up. People need to take back what is their's if it will ever get better. No, I am not asking Tina to intervene during the fight and hold on to her two kids at the same time. I am talking about not patronizing the mall anymore is a poor solution to the problem. The more people there are the less chance of anything happening. Will anything happen? Probably, but, like stopping graffiti the more people are watching out for taggers the less chance it will happen. If you give up and don't erase the taggings quickly the faster it comes back. If we abandon Fashion Fair Mall the quicker the mall will die. The gangs will just follow the crowd to the next new mall and we start all over plus we have a huge empty building on Shaw and Fresno.

I just pulled into the alleyway to my garage on the street in the next block East of Fashion Fair, and somebody has gone berserk with a spray can (this time in lilac/magenta?) all over the garage doors.

This section of town, along shaw has been a border in dispute for gangs for sometime now... (as long as I've lived here, going on two and half years.)

It's cyclical, thing build up and there's issues, -until the cops pull a raid and bust the 'bangers, ---and things then quiet town for a few months, --then pick up again.

But things have been more active lately,
This section has been kind of a 'no mans land,' in terms of turf, (though we have a lot of bulldogs around here,)
-and there is a lot of tagging (especially since christmas,) and retagging to claim the same basic blocks.

To be honest, you're probably not going to be able to get mall security (at any mall,)
to really ambitiously go after full on gangs, it's just too dangerous for them to do so.
-they don't have the training and manpower to go after situaions like that, and bangers are not going to view mall security with the same '...um, better straighten up, guys, the cops are here,' -as they do with the police.
--Come to think of it, they really don't exhibit that sort of concern when the police are on the scene either...

I'd just step lively, watch what is going down, and call in the cops if you see something occurring.

A trend that I've been seeing over the time I've been here has been that you have different 'waves,' of gangs, -each into their own types of destruction.

A first wave could be kids as young as ten or eleven up to early teens.
-then kids from early teens to mid teens.
-then full on 'HighSchool,' aged gangs (older kids.)
-Then bangers in their twenties-thirties
--Then older bangers -basically who can go up into their fifties or sixties (if they live that long.)

Each 'group,' sort of has different traits and goals (younger ones being more into vandalism, and 'proving' something
--often to earn up in the eyes of the older 'bangers, --which can also mean the younger ones doing things that the older ones will not (because they know that the younger kids will only get 'juvi' -and the older ones are looking at more severe sentencing.
---So you could have a kid running dope or something, and they're not looking at the same sort of consequence,
---and they're also protected by the older 'bangers.

There is also a strong difference in how some cultures view 'value of life,' and they do have different 'flash-points,' in terms of things going from 'presence and intimidation,' -to violent acts.
THAT makes for very explosive situations, -which, if mixed in with a group of younger less stablized gangs, -can lead to what you've described.

Though I think it's great to go after some areas with a 'take back our streets,' approach, -and doing that whole '..we're a neighborhood, we're not going to allow that sort of thing.' -approach?

When you have kids in the situation, you are more vulnerable, and there is more at risk.
Probably the best method (in that situation,) would be to not go into that area with the kids (again,) and find a safer one.
-Some may view that as a type of 'giving up,'
-but you have to consider what is at stake,
--that you're dealing with gang issues here in the town that span three and four generations of being 'in,'
--that that lifestyle is severely strong,
-and that you are not going to change it (particularly with little kids in tow,)
--which makes the liklihood of your situation resulting in 'overturning,' things from violent to peaceful, -kind of slim.

So in the effort of 'choosing your battles,' I'd simply go to a safer area, safer park, until things settle down.

http://fresnofamily.blogspot.com/2008/02/update-on-mall-security-issue.h...

Tina
www.fresnofamily.com
www.mommychats.com