Can't. Stand. It.

HELP!!!

~Rell www.myspace.com/559rell www.myspace.com/trellthareallamane (music production)

I think it's left the conventional sense of the word mall as it applies to most places. Instead it's gone to a more office space mentality. It's a mini downtown really. It has the Workforce Connection place where unemployed people can to use resources to find a job.

i have to chime in on this because we shop there regularly. We have been so disappointed with the service we have gotten over the last few years at that Longs. Last time I was there I bought a case of bottled water and asked for a shopping cart to take it to my car. The clerk told me with a straight
face, "We don't have any shopping carts".

this is cool.

I mean it.

-what is cool?
-serious research into it
-cooler still?
-the research being processed (more for presentation, than content change,) -so that folks can get it...

-way cooler still?
well, actually doing something with it, and applying the success and failures of other places to it...

which is why I want to (honestly,) hear your thoughts on it, and read what you want to say, and what you think will work and not work...
(I was NOT being a wiseguy on that...)

I'm sure there are plenty of folks haunting this site who are into planning stuff (Andy, Dani, Dennis, -even cubby and annette...) Patricks up in the trees watching all the time...
-this really could be 'the skunk works.'

---but seriously, -looking over the data and the stats, --and then mulling over the options DOES provide ways out of problems,
---and can direct the 'sprawl,' into 'positive growth.'

All wise assed-ness aside.

It's excellent that you're the spacemonkey (and) Mr. Mioggi / McGuyver on this situation. (Figures, a fellow German flying the mission...)

-If you need a hand, I know a guy with a truck.
(and a whole bunch of bicycles.)

-Keep writing.

-E

and Patrick. Thanks. I've only spoken to you once in person, but I've appreciated the info and leads you've sent
and I'm always looking to learn more on this subject.
This project is growing and morphing as more folks
throw good info our way.
Hopefully the end product will be something useful and helpful.

remember, I'm an amateur. I'm a musician, not an economist..but I thought that that might work for me
as far as communicating this subject to others. I've been trying to get a grip on this subject for years and years.
About ten years ago, my band did a whole series of songs
about Fresno...mostly about growing up here, and my feelings toward where the town's gone since I'd recently moved back to the Big Valley. This time I wanted to dig into the science of it (as best as amateur-me could) and try and see what I could learn and if I could turn people onto the subject through music.

Here’s a fairly cool document put out by the Brookings Institution and available as a free download through the Lincon Institute of Land Policy.
I think this link will take you directly to the PDF document.
I would put this on the top of a reading list about sprawl (and I have!)

http://www.lincolninst.edu/pubs/dl/35_Alt%20to%20Sprawl%20PF004.pdf

A study co-sponsored by Bank of America (of all places) is now saying ‘we can no
longer afford sprawl’....This study is widely referred to in some of the writings,
but I haven’t found this document yet, but I’m still digging.

A huge amount of hopeful material resides at the website of Walkable Communities, Inc.
--this group’s leader Dan Burden led some town meetings this past spring in Kingsburg;
a small town wrestling with how to maintain identity and uniqueness during growth.
their website is at:
http://www.walkable.org
an article written by Burden called
“How Can I Help Find and Build a Walkable Community”
can be found at:
http://www.walkable.org/article1.htm

Here’s Fresno’s Creative Economy Council’s report and recommendations
for our area.
---the summary can be found here:
http://www.creativefresno.com/cec-report
It’s a “group comprised of members of Creative Fresno and other civic entrepreneurs”
[from the creativefresno.com website] apparently set to work
by Mayor Autry and Councilman Henry Perea.
A ‘report card’ on how well Fresno has so far followed these recommendations
is also available at the creativefresno.com site ---both under the tab “publications”

To completely steal an illustration from local go-getter Suzanne Bertz-Rosa, think of the film
“It’s a Wonderful Life”----Fresno was once (how long ago depends on who you talk to--
certainly before I was born) ‘Bedford Falls’...it became “Pottersville”...the next step,
in my opinion is to say...”well, what can we do now?”...it will never be Bedford Falls again...
so what can we transform ourselves into? or do we let the status quo remain....more of the same..
and just get to be a bigger and bigger Pottersville.
Kingsburg , on the other hand, is in an early state of this evolution---it still IS Bedford Falls...
now, are they going to, by default slip into Pottersville-ness, or.....what?

Here’s a pretty dour, but not far from accurate account of the Central Valley
and it’s sprawl problem from a 1999 article in the San Francisco Chronicle.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/0...
[For people who need a silver lining, remember this article was written before
what I’d refer to as Fresno’s Mini-Renaissance which began, by my severely amateur
reckonings about 4 or 5 years ago.]

Blake and I don't always agree.
Blake and I often do agree.
Patrick and I don't always agree.
Patrick and I often do agree.

I've never had Blake speak for Patrick, and I'm quite surprised that Blake asked Patrick to speak for him...

If you want to write on about how light rail and mass transit solutions are the cure to sprawl, -hey great, I'm all ears. (You post on the subject quite frequently, and I read your data.)

But, out of defence for Blake?
I think the mans research should be heard for what he's found,
-I honestly want to hear his data,
-yours too,
-but not at the expense of his.

If Blake asked you to speak for him, okay, that's fine.
But I really was hoping that he would speak for himself.
By his own volition, he's been doing a ton of research, and is building a show for the Rogue on it, (he's mentionede once or twice,)
-My gut tells me that he has info that most others don't.
I want to hear it and what he's doing with it.
Might even make it to his show.
Hell, I'll probably be taking tickets for his show...

-and just out of curiosity
-what are you driving these days?
(I've figured, considering your distaste for foreign cars, a prius was out of the question, -but with your firm stance on pollution, and such, -the Caddy would have been given the boot.
-Are there any American hybrids yet?
-I figured you'd know if anyone did.)

-happy new year to you, by the way

-Eric

Mr. NoVoid, I'll step in and answer for Mr. Thereminman with the appropriate answer: the solution to extinguish sprawl is wholly dependent upon mobility.

In your travels and in your readings
-what solutions have you seen that have been done in other areas that would apply to Fresno (long range, short range, fast results, long term results.)

-and please, don't say 'come to my show and find out.'

'cause, as good as a tunesmith as you are, I doubt you can whittle down the solutions into 3:05 pop songs, (catchy as they may be.)

-How would you do it differently...?

Save the Historic Fulton Mall buinldings.
Insist that the torn down ones be replaced with old style buildigs like early Fresno.
Replace all Mall light posts with antique style ones.
Manchester has nothing offer anymore.
It is gang central.
Gang members deal drugs daily at the FAX bus area.

Heya Mykel,
Yes, the rotting corpse of old buildings...see: 'the kmart across from roeding park'--abandoned for so long.
Part of this comes from 'retail redundancy'--one of the 50cent terms I've run across as I've been bombarded by readings on Sprawl.
We build another WalGreen/LongsDrugs/ whatever, not because we need another drugstore..but because these behemoths are fighting over market share...who gets the most room in town. Once again---it's not about growing us a city that makes sense...a city that works well...a city that's nice for folks to live in...it's out-of-town companies battling it out on our dirt and we get to live with the rubble.

and your line:

"I believe the day will come, as well, when a massive mall is built in the Friant Dam area, joining ever-growing suburban tract homes."

I believe, with people like yourself and more and more folks discussing the piss-poor way we grow modern cities...that the trend will turn---if we keep talking it up, it seems it will become more of a Mainstream subject.
(Kind of like how "Climate Change" used to be portrayed in some circles as a fringe or wack-o idea, and now mega-automobile-corporations are advertising their vehicles as 'green'.

So, my hope is that we can figure this thing out, rope in the troubles and start the rejuvenation of this town. Hey, nothing like high goals for the New Year, eh?

p.s. (what a jerk I am doing a shameless plug)
I'm part of a group that's developing a (fun and jaunty--haha)musical show called
"Sprawlzilla vs. Mainstreet" to debut in March at the Rogue Festival. Watch for it!(please)

In our lifetimes, Fashion Fair, Riverpark and Clovis will join Manchester Center in lack of consumer appeal, empty storefronts and blight.

This is what happens when you give over your entire city to the car, to freeways, to sprawl and continue moving ever-further from the downtown center.

I believe the day will come, as well, when a massive mall is built in the Friant Dam area, joining ever-growing suburban tract homes.

Of course, it won't be in Fresno Proper, but we all know Greater Fresno will, as with Los Angeles, eventually encompass the entire central San Joaquin Valley and all its cities.

Having said that, I envision one of either two ways to "save" the dying "downtown" that is Manchester Center and other malls:

1: start building high rise residential apartments and condominiums directly adjacent to the mall. Literally in the vast parking lots surrounding it. Extend this construction to lots across the street. Then connect each high rise commercial and residential hub by light rail. Include Old Downtown in this network.

or,

2: bulldoze the mall(s) once a certain limit of empty stores is reached and/or shopkeepers aren't making a certain threshold of profit, and install a regional park, complete with tall trees, lush landscaping and Roeding Park-style tourist attractions.

But for the love of GOD, please...PLEASE...don't just leave these architecturally mish-mashed, decaying malls up for all the world to see. To do so is bad for Fresno's already-suffering morale and attracts nothing but declining property values, grafitti, prostitution and violent crime.

...about 6 times a year, maybe. Once every three months I drop agency newsletters off to PACE APP (about a 6 minute visit), and maybe twice a year I go out to a movie over there (if I'm lucky enough to actually get outta the house: Netflix is just so cheap, easy, and efficient).

Other than that, there is really nothing there, although I do wanna commission the t-shirt air brusher to do some things for the crew. He does NICE work, but it seems the only one's buying from him are gang bangers who want custom Raiders shirts with their gang signs on ‘em…

OH! I ate at that Red Robin about 8 months ago and put my kid on the carousel. That’s a cool feature. You actually get a LONG ride!

That mall just seems so ‘five and dime’…

-s

--hmmm, well in the general warning of

*Hey kids, don't do this at home, be sure to work with a competent professional*

Yeah, if anybody anywhere is not comfortable with their pharmacist, (which are chemists that go through almost as much training as regular doctors,)

-bail at once and go to one that is not only friendly,
but knows about what chems/meds interract positively,
-what will cause adverse side-effects,
-what meds cancel each other out,
-which ones increase each other's strength,

(and whose staff completely understand your own physical condition and pharmacy.)

--A good pharmacist actually is going to make sure that what you're taking is going to do the right thing,
(They should have on file everything you are taking, and you need to be in dialogue with them when taking anything, (even over the counter drugs,)

-As we're a 'graying society,' there are a lot more 'long term meds,' being assigned to folks, and not all of them get along with other long terms, short terms,

-and there is always the circumstance of a person's body chemistry changing every several years, (sometimes radically, such as during or after pregnancy,)
--that play a big deal with how meds work in a person.

-A good pharmacist does not simply follow a prescribing doctor's orders and shovel it over to you without thinking about it, and reviewing your regimine, AND telling you what the meds will do, and what to watch out for.

(I've had family members actually die from goofed up prescriptions (not from any pharmacies here,)
-and a lot of other situations where pharmacists have either caught a bad prescription,
-or have had to intervene when the wrong meds were handed over, (so this means that somebody gets to be Dr. Mom, or Dr. Dad as well, (who knows what the meds usually look like, -so that if something funny has come across (instead,) they can spot it...

MisMedication via a lot of methods happens a lot more than people would want to think.

TOTALLY BOUNCE and go with a pharmacist who knows what they're doing, (who cares more about you,) than just sticking with something because it's 'local,' or 'cheaper.'

(And, to be honest, you have both excellent folks who are 'local mom and pop,' pharmacists, and 'major chain store,' pharmacists as well, -but it's best to be dealing with somebody who has all your data on file, and knows what works, and what could be a disaster.)

I have to chime in on this because we shop there regularly. We have been so disappointed with the service we have gotten over the last few years at that Longs. Last time I was there I bought a case of bottled water and asked for a shopping cart to take it to my car. The clerk told me with a straight
face, "We don't have any shopping carts". She called the Manager and he rounded me up a metal merchandising cart and told me to make sure I bring it back. The Pharmacy there has literally run us away because of their incompetence. When we finally shifted our prescriptions to Target we were amazed with the friendly service and competence. The good thing is the Theater in Manchester. We still go there.

but the paint isn't that old. You have a point though.

Diablo

Geesh... if this ain't tha-most-low-budgetest-mall...

But, I do see your point: The Manchester Center is not a failure, it's a potential failure. Losing anchors is not good business. If you lose enough, you're sunk.

Those big hits will keep on hurting if Manchester doesn't shape up and make some improvements. If it just looked more attractive, things like safety & reputation would appear and probably become a lot better.

~Rell www.myspace.com/559rell www.myspace.com/trellthareallamane (music production)

Rumor is that the former Longs' space might become a dollar store of some sort. Gottschalks has been fighting with the mall in court the last few years over "broken promises" the mall supposedly made to get "the G" to stay. Gottschalks wants to close that store, which has become their "jumble sale" outlet pretty much. Several of the smaller businesses change hands regularly. The juice/food place next to the beauty supply store is for sale--again. Losing Longs' is a big hit for Manchester! I don't imagine Walgreens will come in there--a major pharmacy with a drive thru window is slated to be built down Blackstone at Clinton.

but I don't think you can call it a failure. Try parking there around 1pm sometime. Nowhere to park.

I think it's left the conventional sense of the word mall as it applies to most places. Instead it's gone to a more office space mentality. It's a mini downtown really. It has the Workforce Connection place where unemployed people can to use resources to find a job. That's a lot of people that work for Workforce. It has a Dentistry that gets packed. It has Caltrans which probably constitutes more than half of workforce at the mall. I've heard numbers in the many hundreds that are employed and working there for Caltrans. There is also an FCC satellite school there. There are other big businesses there as well, two of them seem to be telemarketing type places. And the food court, well, you know they make their money feeding those big businesses. There are a few shops, jewelery stores, Salon, coffee shops, Foot Locker, portrait studio, clothing stores like Millers.

It's not that bad really, but I wouldn't call it a great "mall". Considering that before Caltrans moved in there and put so many cars in the parking lot, that place was COMPLETELY DEAD. Since moving to a more business-plex type mall it seems to me that it's carved itself out somewhat of a good thing. It might not fit into the Mall mentality that most would expect, but I don't think those property owners care about being a mall so much as they do about collecting that steady monthly check. Seems to me that it's turned itself around and out of a rut.

Diablo

The rent must be sky high. I know that was the problem with previous owners.

Anyone know?

Also - theere's no way they'll ever be amenable to the Tower way of life. Try distributing flyers for a community event at Manchester sometime. Something family friendly. Why they have the kindest security staff ever, more than happy to go and pick up what you've left and call you to let you know they have it, so you can come get it.

That kind of thing doesn't happen in the Tower, because people actually give a damn. And I love Manchester Center, have since I was a kid.

But, Manchester has a long way to go before it even compares to River Park, Fashion Fair, or even Sierra Vista.

It would be nice if it were taken over by the "South of Belmont" crowd and there were some Toweresque shops and galleries inside. That would really change the direction of things...and I'm sure that mall management wouldn't mind. I mean, what do they have to lose???

~Rell www.myspace.com/559rell www.myspace.com/trellthareallamane (music production)

I think whoever is in charge of the mall is doing jack shit with place either he's bakrupt or no bonds to pay for some new features to the place. The mall deserves better and he knows people know it. To attract people to malls is all the popular stores and outlets with the quick and easy food courts. At least make more room to put in stores like Hollister, Anchor Blue or at least Pac Sun. Really I go to the theatre and never notice the mall because it's always dead the only thing that place has going for them is that cheap ass Gator's Pizza which by the way SUCKS! The only problem there is the space so I'm going to shut up now and see it you do some shit soon after you read this BYE BYE.

Last time I was there, I kinda noticed a couple of things about the theatre.

-parking lot has entrance and exit roads that are way too narrow, kinda confusing, and has monster-truck quality speed bumps. (not exactly inviting.)

-the sound quality was like on 'screech level,' in terms of treble,
and sitting there watching the film kinda hurt the ears (and this being written by a guy who likes the sounds of loud bands, loud jet engines, loud car and train engines, loud... you get the picture.)
I don't think I've ever gone back, and come to think of it, it's one of the main reasons why, when I'm looking to hit a flick, I sort of subliminally bounce over the venue.

-I'm also kind of surprised (still)

-by the poor lighting all around the 'bus waiting area,' (it's still kind of dim.)

-(AND) lack of fencing along the canal (right across the street,) at least on Blackstone
(not sure if they fenced it off that much headed along (shields?) down along the base between Blackstone and the freeway berm.)
-I know the sides acrossed Blackstone has a lot of foottraffic back into those neighborhoods.

Considering how close the mall is to areas such as N.Tower, Fres High, etc...
---the mall would be excellent for folks who don't drive much, or who don't drive at all.

Instead it's kinda got that 'forboding,' thing going on when I ride by.

-Wondering if 'the Manchester,' is destined to become the next 'Fulton?'

I'd love to see more done with the mall. When the latest ownership group took over a couple years back, I had high hopes. Today the place sits almost as empty as it did then. I dunno what the cause is - rent too high, perhaps? Even the new theater didn't add all that much mall traffic.

The loss of Longs will hurt badly, I imagine.