...nice, first we have rival taggers commenting on who's better, (stink fact. gets tagged.) -now we have audio perverts... (-Jarah, thanks for pulling the sleaze-post.)

Re: NYC and public transportaion.

When they decide to go on strike, --or something major goes wrong, it is a paralyzed hell on earth... okay...

1. Actually, the fastest way to get anywhere in NYC is usually a train, (they run underground, ----no foolin, call 'em 'Subways.')
-they have express lines, --as well as locals running (near the same) routes...
The only problem is: there are some sections of manhatan that don't have subways in them,
-so the busses stop at the closest subway station, --and then go out to (non-train) routes.
**--it's also really crowded... like, see the movies where everybody is (literally,) up close and personal with folks' nostril hairs, ---yep, that bad during rush hours, --and folks have different standards of hygiene and 'what constitutes an attack fragrance.'** Learn to like people so close that you can feel them breathing on you... (like the E and F up Lex.)

2. Second fastest would be a bus, ---but that's because they have to travel the roads with everybody else, (though, if you've ever challanged a MetroBus, you'd realize that they think that they are trains...) A lot of times you would also use a Bus/Train combination.

3. Third would be Taxi ---simply because they are so expensive. Taxi's are for rich folks, groups going out, or tourists.

Bicycling is not as popular as people might think, (first, it's a pretty fierce traffic city to ride in, you can get splattered very easily, and it's wicked crowded. )
--the weather (which can mean serious cold (like single digits, sometimes, or snow from December to (sometimes,) late March or April, ---can play a factor. (though, it is often about five to ten degrees warmer in Manhattan than elsewhere..)

Walking (I know, I know, use of two legs to ambulate by way of heal-toe jutting,,, shocking, but true,) --still is a big thing back east.

(Public Transportation in NYC is very very affordable.) I lived in an extremely remote area of NY State,
---yet could fall onto a train at 5:30a, ---and be at any desk in the city I wanted to by 7 to 7:30...
-An unlimited train (MetroNorth) ticket was just under 200.00 per month, (that was unlimited riding to anywhere along my line... covered two states. throw in another hundred (or less,) for local lines (in the city,) --and I was making three times what I would have made upstate.
--Those who lived near (a subway,)-even if out in a borough, (like Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn,) who rode the subway, (pretty much anywhere,) went for (I think) a buck-fifty a ride,
-and If you made your connections right, you could go all over the city, and into different boroughs for the same buck-fifty. (buying 'bulk packages,' (such as metrocards that had multiple rides, --or unlimited up to a particular time,) -brought the price down.

In NYC, having a car is actually a liability, (unless you are rolling in dough, -and had off street parking (or needed to get out of the city on a regular basis,) --but usually a train or a bus goes there too...)
--You can't even (usually,) just park a car and let it sit there, you have to switch to alternate sides of the street... Having a car there is like having a large dog there, (the dog is actually less hassle.)

Final on trains.
---You just have NOT lived until you've seen a girl get on the train down at 34th street, and then ride the whole way up the 1-9 to Columbia, ---and put on a full face of makeup in a reflection of herself in the glass... -the whole time the train is bouncing around and rocking back and forth... they do eyepencil, steady as a rock, --and that weird thing that looks like a scissors -but it has a clamp that does something with eyelashes... From Zero to Stunning in no time flat, --under less than ideal circumstances,,,, UN-REAL...!

every so often, i decide to ride the bus instead of my bycicle. the trip that takes me about 30 min on two wheels becomes 1h+ on the bus. and the bus route is almost the same as my bike route. seems silly to me.

One comment about the program (which also airs Sunday at 11:00am on 90.7 KFSR and kfsr.org) - Jim Tucker asked one of you (I can't remember which one) if there was another mid-sized city that has been successful in really focusing its attention on creating a vibrant downtown. I think Suzanne mentioned Ashville, etc.

But just as a thought exercise, let's turn the question around for a moment. Are there any other SUCCESSFUL, VIBRANT and EXCITING midsized cities that have totally given up on their downtowns? Many have forgotten their downtowns for the suburbs, but are those cities places people want to live?

Even if there isn't another city that we can point to and say - "Look there, that city was in the same place as Fresno was, and look what great success they had," we don't really have a choice. We have to move forward because the other option is just giving up.

Jarah,

I did catch the Valley Press broadcast and thought you did a fantastic job. Looks like we need to get you out front more often !

Well said governer, I never had a problem with public transportation while growing up in NYC. But your comments regarding convenience and economy hit the nail on the head. People will not ride public transportation when the private automobile is more convenient. In cities in which public transportation is viable, driving and parking is a pain in the ass.

Having said that, Fresno is a long way from inflicting the kind of pain that will cause people to choose public transportation. Now if oil prices hit $5 this summer, forget everything I just said.

East coast has is own set of horror stories, but I believe you on New York busses. Taxi's are cheaper too. SF busses aren't too bad & I've been known to walk 5+ miles a day in SF.

...but the American way of life is to go anywhere, anytime, if you can afford it or not. We'll never have enough water to support a population that would permanently clog Fresno County roads. Soooo I guess were just practicing our typing skills.

I take the bus all the time in New York and it works very well. It works so well, in fact, that I don't need (or miss) a car. It's downright amazing!

I've read this conversation several times on Famous:

1.) Skeptical Fresnan says Californians LOOOOVE their cars and won't ever give them up.

2.) Idealistic Fresnan says they won't give up their cars because there's no other choice.

The truth is that people will use whatever mode of transportation is the most convenient and economical. Eventually, roads in Fresno will get as disgusting and jammed as Southern California and the Bay Area, while gas will zip past $3 a gallon. Frustrated citizens will then FINALLY call for express buses and/or light rail to ease the pain, because the freeways can't be widened any more. Slowly but surely, people will embrace public transportation again, because it's the most convenient and time-saving option.

But can't officials make plans for the future BEFORE there's a problem?

That's exactly the point- service sucks and needs to be improved.

I assume your talking about an express bus taking a freeway route, not a surface route. That's almost a charter.

FAX bus fare $1. Taxi ride $18. Getting 40 people to drive to an express pick-up point, then bus them to downtown Fresno, priceless.

Take a bus everyware for a week in Fresno or San Francisco (yes, I have) then blog. The novelty and nostalgia will wear off quicky.

happens all the time in other cities.

You should create a poll to see how many ff readers have actually used a fresno city bus at least 10 times, or for one continous week. Probably not many (if any). I've used the fresno busses enough to know that fast and/or efficient is a rhetorical question and a logistical pipe dream.

Sorry if it was unclear, but I was talking about public transportation with respect to River Park. To take the FAX from River Park to downtown, it takes about an hour and a half or so. We can do better. If we're serious about getting people downtown, public transporation has to be considered. If public transportation can become the most efficient way to get from River Park to downtown, maybe people would start viewing city buses as a viable solution. Right now, if you can afford a car, buses are a joke. Some sort of direct shuttle also solves the parking problem. Similarly, imagine a direct public transport route from Fresno State to downtown: bar hopping with no worries.

Sorry for the late notice, but fret not. You can view a repeat of the program (if I'm not mistken) on Sunday at 11am, or listen to it on KFSR Saturdays at 1:00pm and Sundays at 11:00am. Or, just read the report at fresnocec.org.

On listening to the analysis of transportation needs, the mention of a vibrant network of clean safe taxi service was woefully absent. Privately funded transportation cannot survive without popular support and is essential the the plans you describe.

how about a quicktime movie?

anyway, considering how important that subject is to this site, maybe next time put a big flashing "look here moron" banner 3 days in advance for us occasional ff surfers.

did someone actually say that it took 1-2 hours to drive downtown from riverpark? i hope they were joking, cuz i can cross town on my bicycle faster than that.

thanks for the 3 hour notice, I got to see the last 10 minutes.

Good stuff. Though, you mentioned getting from Riverpark to Downtown can take an hour to two hours??? Even with traffic, if I take the 41 ramp at Friant all the way to downtown is only takes about 20 or 30 minutes. I live in North West Fresno and I don't think it's ever taken me even an hour to get downtown. But whatever. Again, good stuff.

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