There were a lot of threads about this shopping center and the closing of Echo Restaurant a while back. A lot of the comments addressed the poor support of locals for our restaurants and I just wanted to point out there is a new restaurant in the old Echo location. I got a chance to eat at Aqua Shi in their first week and the place is superb. The remodel includes a glass top bar with fish, a plexiglass divider with sheets of flowing water and a wall of trees - I can't describe it fairly, just that a lot of effort went into the set up, and it continued into the food. Asian fusion is the theme and my group of six diners was not disappointed. The sushi selection was eclectic, and the entrees were sophisticated. We tried different preparations of pork, beef, and even a homemade gnocchi plate. The dishes were divine. I won't even try to gush about the fried banana dessert or the lemon bars. This place could pull it off, if Fresno gives it a chance and gets past the north-south Fresno sniping.

As a regular visitor to Fresno from the Bay Area, I'm not at all surprised Echo is closing. I didn't feel this way about the place when it was in the Tower District, but in the new space I thought it was overpriced and poorly executed. It seems to happen a lot in mid-sized cities: A potentially decent restaurant is ruined by unjustifiably high prices and pretention. And unforgivably bad martinis. I enjoy my visits to Fresno. I think it's a fine city. But I'm relieved I'll never be dragged to Echo again.

he just thinks he's right about everything.

not only have i seen california pants, i bought three shirts there. i wasn't a repeat customer though. although i loved the style and quality, the price was more than i was willing to pay for a guayabera. but, this hasn't stopped me from shopping on the fulton. i just moved a little further down to tres hermanos.

and even though the 'dogs at coney island aren't much to write home about, i keep going there too.

What about the K-Street mall in Sacramento? In the late 90's they had a weekly Thursday night summertime event that brought out tens of thousands of people. They had bands at every corner playing all sorts of music - rock, reggae, salsa, blues, folk, funk, dixieland - and food vendors lining the mall from the Hard Rock cafe all the way to 12th street (more or less 6 blocks). The event got so popular they had to shut it down. Parking wasn't free, but it was cheap. And the light rail ran through the middle of it too, making it easy for people in the outlying neighborhoods to attend.

I don't think opening the mall up to traffic will make a difference. The Tower is open to traffic and people with money to spend are still afraid of going there. Traffic on the mall won't lessen their fear of downtown. I agree that Fresno is backwards.

when I get shit, I give it right back. My original post part of it was as a joke, then Mr. One on One called me out, so I gave it back to him. I was going to go back and reedit the comment, so it's not so harsh, but there is no edit.

You want some back up and examples for Fresno?

I hope you watched that show on PBS last night called... "California and the American Dream" the episode was called "The Price of Renewal" how Sol Price and William Jones redeveloped the poor community known as City Heights in San Diego, in 13 years. At the end of the show, they commented how the redevelopment eventually priced out the poor people to another poorer area. It was the Poor community that they wanted to help but all that happened was they corporate companies came in and did not want any local businesses in the new shopping areas. The best thing Sol and Bill did was build a new school and Library for the area.

"You also agree that you will not post content that is fraudulent, promotes information you know to be false and misleading, interferes or disrupts the Website or services of the Website, is pornographic in nature, is offensive to the Fresno Famous community, such as content that promotes racism, bigotry, homophobia, hatred or physical harm to any group or individual, or violates any applicable laws."

Let's attack ideas, not people. Please be respectful.

I think that it is important to pay attention to what works and what doesn't. If that makes me an a-hole, then I can live with it.

Love it or leave it isn't very original either.

If you want to have an opinion about the mall, or parking, or signage, or landscaping, or traffic, do a little research and back it up. Give us examples.

Our lack of awareness of what is happening in other places holds us back.

As for being high and mighty, I am neither. I am keenly aware of my many faults. But, I do get tired of hearing people parrot bad information when it comes to the revitalization issue.

20 years ago, Dan Whitehurst called Fresno and informational island. With the internet and web, it is much easier to get information. Becoming informed will make the world a more interesting place and you an even more interesting person.

Every city holds lessons, both good and bad, including ours.

Craig
What is an authentic community?

Why don't you just move to those places if they are so successful.

(Deleted)

Don't be so high and mighty, over a lame blog posts, It's all just opinions.

Now back to Jarah's K-Fed posts.

anti-musick (do you wear a mask too?),

Back up your opinions. You can find dozens of former pedestrian malls that have added traffic and then become successful (try Kalamazoo, the first ped mall). I can show you dozens of successful downtown without free parking (Pasadena, SLO, Sand Diego, Seattle, Portland, Manhattan, Chicago...).

Perhaps there are other conclusions that can be reached?

Your points are without merit or substance and uninformed, simple-solution people like you are holding Fresno in its backward situation.

Your conclusions were obviously generated at some tri-tip bbq held in the back yard of some Fresno subdivision tract house.

Try getting out of the valley one of these days.

Craig
What is an authentic community?

...no more talk that includes "all _____ needs is _______." Fresno is famous for thinking that "quick fixes" will quickly and easily solve complex problems. The Mall was supposed to "save" Downtown, just as the Convention Center, the Stadium, and now Forest City, etc. It's all part of a puzzle. There is no such thing as a quick fix.

It is sad that Echo is closing, especially with the proliferation of "chain restaurants" increasing in Fresno. Unfortunately they thumbed their nose at the Tower District where they already had a loyal following. Everyone wants to move "North" where all the money is....yet no one seems to realize that the competition for that almighty dollar is fierce, and if people want to go out for a nice dinner and perhaps a stroll they want "atmosphere". If all the money is in North Fresno, where do all the Mercedes and Cadillacs and BMW's come from in the Tower District?

Fashion Fair Mall & Manchester Mall need traffic to drive down them, because with out cars driving down the mall (like in the Blues brothers, or Dawn of the Dead original) you will not get people to visit any of the shops ... no wait people do go to Fashion Fair Mall and shop at those shops even when you can't drive by them ... hmmm what do those Malls have over the Fulton Mall .... hmmm lets see it's very easy ... can you say FREE PARKING !!! this has been the biggest problem of downtown the lack of FREE PARKING ... I bet if they started to charge for parking around the other Mall they too would see businesses leave over the years.

So once again I'll say ... leave Fulton Street Mall alone, do not open it up to traffic, why when the street dead ends at 41, if anything maybe make the Mall longer all the way to 41, the south end of the Mall would be cool if there was a House of Blues, or Rock and Roll cafe, how about just a larger open Flea Market like what Yoshi Now is doing and More Art Galleries like at Mono & Van Ness. With Original local places that are unlike other cities it should attract more outside people, to something that's not in any other cities.

once again the Fulton Mall really just needs more Free Parking that is close to all of the Businesses, near the mall.

The Fulton Mall businesses would not be more successful if you could drive by them. There aren't any businesses to speak of that would make you stop your car if you saw them. If we do get more night clubs and interesting boutiques, people will want to get out of their cars and walk around. At night, you don't want to stagger out of a bar onto a busy street, and we don't want to encourage people to get in their cars after drinking. If there were several bars on the mall, it would be great to walk between them and admire the Mall art and architecture on a summer night.

karma

Thank you for the information. I for one did not know the reason they moved and I can understand those in the Tower feeling a little defensive about the comments...just like those of us in Fresno get defensive when the city is put down by those outside of Fresno.

But I still think there are a lot of people who like to "dislike" the north end of town for what I would call, no good reason.

As I understand it, one of the reasons cited for their lack of success was that they couldn't be seen from the street.
Does that ring a bell with anyone?
"No, we don't want cars to be able to drive past businesses on the Fulton Mall. Businesses on the Fulton Mall do not need to be seen to be successful - look at Fashion Fair."
Sorry, but the Fulton Mall is not a suburban-style, weather-regulated shopping center. It's a civic center, it's an office center, it's a museum, it's a park, and yes, it's even a little bit of a shopping area. And maybe soon, it'll be a residence area, and a nightclub mecca. But don't compare it to Fashion Fair or Riverpark.
Businesses on the Fulton Mall need to be seen. Ever been to California Pants? Perhaps you've never been there. Perhaps you've never heard of it. Perhaps you've never seen it. Not unless you parked your car in the pay parking lot, and happened to walk by it.
Well, maybe you'll see it if you go to Cinco de Mayo - May 5, 6, 7 along the Fulton Mall, put on by the Downtown Association.
Hope to see you there!

I have known and enjoyed Tim and Adams food and hospitality since their Veni Vedi Vici days. Their wild mushroom lasagna was a signiture dish. They even let me play in their kitchen, which a did a few days a week, when they first opened in the Tower. Their parties at their little home on Echo Street were wonderful. Those were very good days. They are two of Fresno's most creative and talented people.

However, Adams made disparaging remarks about the Tower when they moved north, his quote blamed the Tower for the need to move north. He said that north Fresnans wouldn't come to the scary Tower, so they had to move ECHO to them. This is what has bothered many of us. If you want to live, work or own a business up north...great, do it. Leave it at that.

The loss of Echo is the loss of an emerging hope for Fresno. They were developing a Fresno cuisine. Fresh food, from local growers, in season. In the Tower, their freezer wan no bigger than a hotel room mini bar. The only thing that was frozen was bread, so that it could be made into croutons and their wonderful bread pudding.

I'm confident that Woods and Holland will be successful in their future efforts. Roy Harland lost his restaurant in Fig Garden Village years ago, and is probably Fresno's most successful restaurant guru today.

By the way, who designed the shopping center that ECHO was in? Talk about bad layout. The Channel 30 report said that several other businesses have gone out of business there too.

Craig
What is an authentic community?

as a tower resident, i didn't care that echo moved. i do know that some people, myself included, were disappointed about the remarks made about the tower when they moved. statements in the paper about safety and such weren't cool.

so, i'm not sad to see that they failed to make it up north. although, i do feel bad for their staff. but, i'm sure they'll find work @ one of the many other quality restaurants in town.

...thanks Johnson.

having 'outed myself,' I appreciate your kind words.

At risk of begging a point.

I don't think it's a North-South thing, a Tower-Downtown thing, (etc, etc, I don't even know the neighborhoods that well..)

I've been here for just over a half year...
I won't go into why, (it's a dead issue.)

But so many people introduce Fresno with this self-defeating attitude. It really needs to stop.

It's like dating a model, (which I've dated several,) not to broadbrush models,,,)
-but when with people who are so self conscious and always comparing themselves to their 'more beautiful,' sisters... it builds the wrong sort of mystique...
(News Flash: the terminally beautiful can often be quite nuts and don't particularlly enjoy life all the more by being having to be beautiful all the time.)

We, (since I live here now,) cannot draw people by proclaiming what we are not, and seeing this town as '...quite nice, if you look past the mole.'
--that ain't a mole, kid, that's a beauty mark.

There is beauty in function, there is beauty in reality, there is beauty in doing what one is created to do, and dancing the way one moves.
It's been, like, six months of being with someone who just wishes their butt was smaller, --when they have stunning eyes, sing like Renee Flemming, and move like mist on the water in moonlight...
So they aren't photoshopped into perfection, BIG DEAL,,,,

Fresno has moves, she has grace, she has charm, she's downright fetching and a hottie in her own right, (her own left, even, -if I can persuade more democrats to move here...)

I don't mind a little '...kid you an't leaving this house dressed like that,'
-But I won't have any of this locking onesself in the closet, playing Carol King albums, smoking Lucky's and becoming the next pathetic shut in...

This is a magnificent place... (though the Hoppy Painting still creeps me out a little.)

I'm just tired of seeing an honest beauty call herself anything but... and find the constant negative very unbecomming.

The music is playng, the night ain't getting any younger, put on some perfume, grab some poor unsuspecting wallflower, and throw them around the dancefloor till they collapse in your arms, smiling... (I don't care that you have big feet,) by time the last song is sung, we're going to have had one hell of a romantic evening...

-and now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

This news can't be taken as anything but sad. While I do get a little "miffed" when a business moves to the North and they label it "moving up" - I don't know that this was Echo's reason. I don't ever like to see a small business fail especially one that has given so much to the community and been an absolute gem of an offering to residents, visitors and food media. I am saying a little prayer that this setback is just temporary and we haven't seen the last of Tim Woods and Adams Holland providing amazing dining experiences here in Fresno.

Thank you for your insightful comments Eric. I for one enjoy restaurants in the north end of town...Five, Campagnia's, etc. I also enjoy restaurants in the Tower and Downtown Fresno (Fagan's for one). I think this town is big enough to support numerous restaurants in numerous locations. I for one don't understand why people get so upset when a business decides to move north. A business in the north end of town is just as valuable to the city, county, the economy, etc as a business in Downtown Fresno or anywhere else for that matter. If I'm missing something, by all means, someone explain it to me.

As a small business owner myself, I feel bad for these people.
Nobody goes into business with a dream, (even if it is furthering a dream, looking to fail.)

Though it's fun to see some of the postings back and forth under obviously false names, and I enjoy a nom-de-plume, I find the most recent remarks, (citing 'expensive training, turning away of clientelle based upon appearance' and the like,) to be borderline liabel.
(I've yet to walk into a store, this side of the Missisippi that does not have 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone,' posted somewhere.)

That the person who wrote the post choose to not be identified further casts things into an acidic and sub-highschool tone.

I respect Jarah's openning of the floodgates to allow unknown posters to the blog, (and have had fun with it myself,)
--but think that such comments, --be they facts that can be checked or not, give the community a black eye.
Checking the threads, I've read other remarks stated about other establishments, -simply because they moved to where business opportunities were good.
--Why was that seen as abandonment?
--Why didn't new people snap up the empty spot in the previous location, knowing that there would be a void (and fish in a barrell re: the 'abandoned,' clients who did not wish to travel to the 'new spot.')
Instead: wasting of time, creating a poisonous atmosphere, and grousing about 'moving up north.'
Foolish.

Bottom line is: two small business owners that should be thriving in a town that is booming, have posted just this morning, that they are closing their doors (restaurant and bookstore.)

This is sad, these dreams and ideas are injured and going down, their condition is to be met with regret and compassion, not cheap shots from the dark.

There is good money to be made here, and good reputations to be developed, -all for good service...

-But none of it will happen so long as the community (be it Tower, Downtown, North Fresno, etc. etc.) continues to attack each other and impale themselves on such catty and self-destructive behavior.

My regrets to these two establishments, I do hope the clouds pass quickly and your desire to make something better is not extinguished by this rough season.

Eric Field
(RomeoVoid)

metal heart, you aren't hiding, metal heart, you aren't worth a thing... I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see... (CatPower)

The people that worked for them in the north Fresno location have told me that the supervisors would make the decision not to serve people based on how they looked and dressed. This was part of their $40,000 training. This has nothing to do with Fresno not appreciating Echo but Adams and Tim not appreciating the people of Fresno. You can't be that arrogant and pretentious in a town of only 500,000 people. Your restaurant can only survive on repeat customers.

Echo opened it's doors in the Tower with other peoples money. They opened in north Fresno with more investor money. They have a responsability to their investors and their customers which they obviously failed to uphold.

This is terrible news. I was sad to see Echo leave the Tower but certainly hoped (and assumed) it would do well in the new location. Tim and Adams are incredibly talented. I hope they don't give up on Fresno completely!

You mean after moving up north, they are closing? Business up there wasn't good for Echo??

others might chalk it up to echo's owners not realizing what they had in the tower.