Hooray! It's a good old fashioned flame war. I wish we could go back to an archive to read the OLD flame wars. They were always funny and/or outrageous. I too vote for "get your own website." I'll actually visit and post to that site too if possible. Call it Mindhead.

here we go now.. can this freedom be tested in such an ironic example? Do i defend an interesting writer for sharing his every motivation and also be obliged to defend the equality of someone who thinks he has a hotline to God?? We do have a choice here, whether it's the scroll key or the left-click. i feel strongly about blog hijackings but who determines this but the dedicated admin crew who set up this site? It's up to Jarah, ultimately, just as it's up to us to pick and choose what we let piss us off or uplift us. It wouldn't bother me if jadedvisalian posted his ass off, because i can click around him (and romeovoid if i'm impatient) and he's free to wallow in his own crapulence. BUT, it definitely bothers me that rv feels like backing off and changing his style becaue someone says he's taking over . i know that feeling won't last because there will be enough people to encourage him (and even DAVe) to keep the fire. It's ALL about Fresno, where we live. It's why we come here, not to be excluded but to be in touch with community.

I'd like to say that I post in the Visalia Neighborhood. It is nice to see some passion from all you. And sure my posting was Christian Faith base, but only to those who listen or read. The maker of Heaven and Earth ain't for everyone. He would love it. Believe me. But there are some of you who don't want to hear it. I am cool with that. So I recommend that you ignore us and move along...move along. I do the same thing for worldly things that I come across. If it's not for me. I move on to other things. So there, we can all get along until Jesus comes back and drops all you sinners in the lake of fire for all enternity. LOL J/K I don't REALLY know for such what will happen to you on judgement day. But good luck with that I'm rooting for ya!. I still will love you no matter what choice you make. And so does God and He's better at it too.
DAVe the JadedVisalian

The only question of the long winded typing abilities of Mr. RomeoVoid is he must be the only person in the Valley that can make a keyboard melt by typing too fast.

As for poetry: Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, Fresno is pretty and who are you? Maybe I can use that line at a bar… only to go home alone.

Sometimes Famous Guest anonymity comes in handy.

Dear Fresno Lover

That you made it through your undergraduate education in under fifteen pages of writing is scarey... I was thinking of picking up a couple of degrees while in the state,
--now it would seem that there is a drive-thru window for such things. (though, yes, fifteen pages for me on a deep subject is not unheard of, I just don't always take the time to write about those things, and have no interest in doing so when there is no interest by others.

Re: the Hijacking.
No.
There is no Hijacking going on here.

I simply don't think in soundbites.
I don't often use cliche's,
and my thoughts are sort of long, involved, and multileveled.
It's a blessing and a curse.

I would imagine I've fallen for the sweet scented flypaper of some of the subjects raised on MindHub and on this site.

-They are often complex, passionate, ask questions, and deserve sincere answers.
-Sometimes the answers are as simple as making pancakes using bisquick. (...which is still, waaaaay too long for a lot of folks.)
-Sometimes we're dealing with such wonderful trite issues as racism, personal views, horizons in life, -and love.

I guess, without coming across cavalier, I'd throw down this challange.

-Pick one of these subjects, (heck, you don't even have to be positive and attempt to explore or answer
---just air a legitimate gripe...)
-and write it.
-perhaps not on this site,
-as there have been concerns about things becoming a literary quagmire
-when folks are looking for something else... (fair enough.)

Some of my stuff is extended play, some of it is 3:05.
I love both the Ramones And Ukranian symphonies that take over an hour to listen too... (wretched thing, this broad background.)

But, gods honest truth, most of the time, when folks take the time to read what I write
-I get some really neat feedback...
-not 'wow your stuff is great,'
(I get that too, and it's nice, it's nice to make somebody's day or be a part of their thinking in a good way,)
--but it's cool when they do their own stuff back, when it moves them. --and that happens enough that I think writing as I do is okay.
Maybe not here, definitely not on FresFam,,, but I feel quite responsible to these responses from others.
-I like it more, actually when someone says,
'what you said there, about this or that, really struck me, I'm now (stoked, sad, happy, or pissed, etc.) and am thinking ________'
-and they Do Something.

You probably havn't a clue of this, (it's not part of the culture here,)
But, off in a distant time in the world, there were whole peoples who would actually stand on opposite hills, with others in the valley, who'd recite whole prayers, poems, sing songs, and histories to each other as a living dialogue and testamony to who they were, what they felt, and where they came from... (...they are called Jews, actually, and a lot of what they did became some of the most gorgeous sections of what is seen by some as a great text,
----yes, 'spectacular use of words,' from the people who brought you 'God'... who'da thunk it...)

Sometimes, in smaller forms, such a thing happens here.
Sometimes it happens in a few comments at a traffic light.
Sometimes it's the spectacular menagerie of a Rademacher show, (where everybody starts singing,) -or Trike Shop, (ditto.)
Sometimes it's banger honda's tripping each other's alarms with stereos.
--if you don't completely love it, you need six feet of dirt on top of you, (because, honey, you're already dead, --and in this heat, it only going to get worse.)

But Hijacking... no.

I just figure people actually mean what they write, write what they care about, and when they ask a question,
----they really wanted an answer to their question, or dialogue on the comment.

I don't paint over other artist's work, and I don't sing when they are trying to solo.

-When they write in an electronic arena, -where there is supposed to be conversation, if I think it's worthwhile, I write back.

It's just the way I think and talk.
It's the way that I listen too.

I have decided to back off on the blogging and heavy writing...
-particularly on FresFam.

There is no reason to turn folks away from the site, ---and I like the site a lot,
-have too much respect for what Jarah, Suzi, and the rest have done with it.

Maybe a separate 'writers site,' of some sort is in order...
-I'm not that good with a computer to set up such a thing,,,, but in this town, ---on this site, --there have been some tremendous, amazing, and shocking writers, ---who don't know how good they are, -and have to be heard, (for their sakes, and other's sakes.)

Re: Mindhub
-great site, I was actually directed to it by a fellow Fres.Fam. artist, but can see the following problems, ---that would torture folks, (not a goal of mine.)
---if you get an Email that says 'mindhub post' (com) ---and tells you that I've written something, --but does not include all of the content, ---you're looking simply at a tagline. (you can choose to read or not read... --and believe me, there are some pretty long remarks from a lot of folks.)
---but, if you get the whole thing as a weekly data roll,
---than yes, something with length is going to be hard to see on the crawl.

I have another blogsite, (and wonder of wonders, I actually have someone who's started to heckle and stalk me on my MySpace,
---who doesn't like the length of my writings there
---but seems to to have this need to write and complain repeatedly.
(not a well being, emotionally, I'm afraid... I mean, really, what is the need to visit my site when what and how I write is not very likely to change???)
-and, though my name has been written in this, -and is on MindHead, ---why would someone take the time to crossreference and try to read what I've written on both venues
--if they weren't attracted to some of my views and writings???
(...It's starting to sound like the woman who is logging into my blog just to tell me that I'm long winded --again and again.)

-Another site for writing (for Fresno and area writers,) might be great.
I do think that some of the writing on here is extraordinary,
--and think the site would be remiss without it being here. (Kimber's ode to a diner, and CMCASS' reverse stance letter were spectacular.)
It's too bad that there really isn't room for creative writing about fresno and life in general here, I think in a way, that is all this site is, just sometimes more clinical fact, -sometimes total hallucination.

-Regarding deeper issues on MindHub and such...
-well, if I'm invited to share an opinion I will continue to do so... Free Country and all that.
I'll continue to go as deep as is called for in equal company.
I do go for the throat on issues that are serious, and have no desire to offer a sugared 'AM edit' version.
(When I see such things as racism, hatred, lack of care for the poor, (etc.) usually I'm lava, ---MindHub has been the restrained version.)

As far as any 'blogging.' is concerned,, a Blog is a personal space to write, share feelings, and document what is happening from this end of the keys, ---to that end.
-and in that realm, we are all simply who we wish to be.

Perhaps (and this is to everyone,)
you should write your own comments, be they long or short.
-and hope for critics as honest as yourselves,,,
(--don't worry, the worst of them are not nearly as tremendous as when you truly connect with somebody,

-what doesn't kill you will only make you stronger...)

Take Care.
-Romeo Void

I don't know Romeovoid but I do like to think he's a nice guy. However, being a Fresno Famous reader and Mindhub.org subscriber, I am overwhelmed by his need to wallpaper local cyber space with words. I recently tried to read one of his posts on Mindhub. I ended up passing out before I reached the end. I pasted the post into Word and it turns out it was 15 pages long! I made it through college without writing 15 pages.

I second the call for Romeovoid to get his own blog.

Romeovoid- you may want to ask yourself if you are hijacking an audience that was created and built up for purposes other than being your sounding board.

good god.. how encouraging we are! This guy romeovoid is half the reason i come here. i've yet to read more than one of his posts that doesn't include a visual of this town or a local experience that i can clearly relate to. Poetry might be a fringe topic that requires alternate space, but his prose and rants are as community-oriented as i've found anywhere. What is really the problem? Too many lines? He loves to write and seems cooperative to the cause. We should all aim to be as prolific and creative and willing.

Really, put up your own site and do whatever you want. It's easy to do.

Joe I appreciate your clearing this up.

--The spot just ran, (and my fav. Pixies song is on.)

-What I may have heard in the voiceover was 'online forums' and thought I heard 'poems.'
-so it's probably mystery solved with that.

-Thanks as well to Jarah and Wiffle.
--for making the direction regarding poetry, fiction, and personal blogging on FresFam clear as well.

Happy 4th, and good luck to all of you in future pursuits.

Perhaps what you heard was not a spot for Fresno Famous but for something else, sometimes (say for Art Hop) we'll tag a message with a mention of the FF events calendar as a source for more info. However, the only spot that we have on the air FOR Fresno Famous doesn't mention online poetry. It mentions an interactive calendar of local events, blogs, online forums, podcasts, gossip, etc. But not poetry.

I'm slightly confused by a few things, but this string has been nothing if not clarifying.

The spot on KFSR very clearly did mention online poetry.
(I did not write specific time of its drop in, as I was in my shop and busy doing stuff, but thought it an interesting add on.
--what struck me was that actually it was different from the usual promo.)
--I did radio for years, and after a while the things that catch your ear are the things that are different, --such as dead air, a blown cue, skipping songs, or something that changes the regular flow of the broadcast of a performance..)
--I figured it was also a part of the recent advertising and 'cultivation,' that has been happening in the town (the slams, the performances of this past weekend, etc.)
-which seemed to be coming together with a recent bunch of writers posting poems or poetic types of blogs,
-I figured, 'cool, looks like they are promoting spoken word and lit. as well...'
-I am nearly a hundred percent sure that this is what I heard, but didn't take the time to record it (an unidentified person stating that they were the station manager claims otherwise.)

For me, however, the key statement to this would be from the SiteMistress:

'…It was not designed, and I'm not sure its suitable to be a poetry or literary site. I know the majority of the Famous community comes here to find things to do in Fresno and keep up on or discuss local news, not to get a dose of poetry, prose, or fiction. In fact, from the feedback I've received, most Famous readers find it a strong turn off.
If folks want a local online home for poetry and prose, that's great and we'll encourage it. But I think it needs to be separate from Famous…'

-Well, who wants to turn folks away from something?,
-and if the lady is receiving negative writing to that effect, than such things should not be done.

I respect Jarah, her comments, and her wishes.

These things tell me, (and I guess anyone else who writes in this style) to abstain from writing this way on FresFam,
-and thank her for clarifying these things,
-preventing the site from loosing participants,
and heading a direction that it is not meant to go.

romeovoid said:

"I just heard an advert on KFSR regarding FresFam, --and it did state that the site was actually for other things, but included blogs and online poetry... (not to mention gossip, events, politics,,, I forget what else..)"

The FF spot on KFSR says NOTHING about poetry or prose. Just wanted to clear that up.

This is a community site about Fresno. Its goal is to help people explore and discover life in Fresno. It was not designed, and I'm not sure its suitable to be a poetry or literary site. I know the majority of the Famous community comes here to find things to do in Fresno and keep up on or discuss local news, not to get a dose of poetry, prose, or fiction. In fact, from the feedback I've received, most Famous readers find it a strong turn off.

If folks want a local online home for poetry and prose, that's great and we'll encourage it. But I think it needs to be separate from Famous.

I wouldn't be doing my job if I couldn't get Romeo to comment.
Anyhow, my point is not that people shouldn't write about their boyfriend, what music they're listening to, poetry, or how kickass Jesus is. My point is: Shouldn't it involve Fresno is some way shape or form?

Give me something. Talk about how great your Fresno church is or how a Fresnan can cast a stone in any direction and break a church window; some sort of Fresno thread. Your boyfriend worked at Fresno's Tower Records and you went in there one night and yelled at him in the Local Bands Section — FRESNO IT UP PEOPLE!

I can see this site going in another direction and I'm not a fan of it…that's all. I love this site to death too. And I know it's not my site so who am I to ask people not to post un-Fresno stuff? I guess I just miss the old site with "Abby Blackstone".

Obviously I understand everyone in Fresno has different opinions, writing styles and interests, but if it doesn't involve something Fresnoish, why do I need to read about it on FRESNOfamous.com?

Dear Wiffle

I've actually gotten a complimentary Email from you in my account on Fres. Fam.
Hopefully this will not change that, but, some goals are more erstwhile than others.

I just heard an advert on KFSR regarding FresFam, --and it did state that the site was actually for other things, but included blogs and online poetry... (not to mention gossip, events, politics,,, I forget what else..)

1. --a Blog is a form of an online diary. Not all men like to admit that they keep a diary, --but some will say that they have a journal, and a heck of a lot of them admit to 'blogging.'
--I've seen blogs on this site that are highly personal, -and others that are completely the opposite.
I think both are necessary and relevant.

There is also a ton of wit flying back and forth, one liners, angry retorts, ---even slashers who say ignorant things and just jet,,,
---and lots of stuff that others like, but I find worthless,,, but hey, it's a public space...

2. Pulpit.
I know, I know, this may be a real shocker, --but there are a varity of people who write on this thing, and they come from a lot of different perspectives... Some have faith in different areas, and some have none at all.
-When you mix in that a persons blog (just might,) involve a persons faith, -and what they do with their life, --you may have some rather direct comments about their personal views.
---so yes, along with the sexual remarks and inuendo
---along with the political remarks
---along with the adverts for the practice of 'magick' and other metaphysical practices
---along with some rather direct photos posted that call in to question the idea of 'hearing from the Lord.' -with some pretty strong profanity, (...I kind of know this guy, totally respect his work, too... and he's a decent sort... --obviously not intersted in the same sort of faith as me, but he has a right to express himself...)
----You may find a creative person who might just talk about their relationshop with a God, their relationship with others, ---and they may just say such horrible things as 'this God loves people.'
(George Harrison had a top hit with My Sweet Lord, --and it was about Krishna... -does this upset you too???)
--There are hard-core wiccans and neopagans on this site,,, they don't bother me...
--I don't go deliberately burning question marks in the yards of agnostics, either...

It's still just that person's opinnion.
Just like any other opinnion that you'll find here.
Including mine, Including yours.

3. Back to the creative writers...
Not everybody is going to write about the same sort of thing.
Strangely enough, relationships tend to rate pretty high for some folks.
So there may be a lot of writing about this. ---Be it with a person, a spouse, a friend, a nostalgic view of Fresno, or even Mass Transit and Mexican IceCream. (Though I found Kimber's ode to the Diner to quite steamy.)

I've looked at this site, as being a fair ground to write about darn near anything in Fresno,
It's not a municipal building and grounds site... It's about the people in the area, and they wander like mercury on a kitchen table... (and sometimes can be just as hazardous)
The site has not failed to meet this expetcation yet,,, (including stuff that sometimes make my skin crawl, and stomach tighten.)

But I'd rather know what people are thinking, in whatever detail they wish to convey,
---than to have any others think that they cannot contribute to 'discovering Life in Fresno.'

(I still like the old tag line, 'dedicated to making life in Fresno less boring,,,' ---but hey, we're all so much more optimistic and nurturing these days, No?)

Thanks for writing.