city council throws $50k at the stupid downtown river idea
I would like my $50k now please.
It's been talked about before... the Bee story says the idea failed over 30 years ago.
But someone wants to beat at it again. Fresno has a real river it's in it's other city called North Fresno, and it wants to be a parkway.
I watched California's Gold on PBS on Monday at 7pm it's was a California's Water episode... they featured San Jose's Guadalupe River that goes through downtown San Jose... it's was developed in to a flood control river, it looks nice and Adobe Systems Inc., HQ is right next to that real river, but watching the show there were no mass amounts of people drawn to the river, it looked more like no one knew it was there.
If Fresno wants river taxis then forget the river part for downtown, Fresno City could not even maintain fountains on the Fulton mall just look at the one that became a planter in front of the old bank of Italy building, just bring back Fresno's streetcar system it had before 1939, and you'll get a iron rail river taxis, maybe that will draw businesses back to downtown.
Businesses don't want to be next to rivers, unless they need to to discharge their wastes, look at the past when Gottschocks moved their HQ from Downtown to next to Woodward park, they had those problems with the wild animals, when birds would build their mud nests on the edges of it's building.
But if City council is looking to fix it's homeless problem, put a river in downtown and the shanty town south of it will have a place to bathe.
A man made downtown river is a bad idea, if the city wants to play with a river then work on the real one in the city of North Fresno.
the City of Fresno can make their $50k check out to me.
downtown
Let's talk about the working Mom's who are trying to juggle a full time job, laundry, dinner, home taxi, housework and a thousand other things at the same time. She will put her lunch hour to work for errands three or four times a week. So give her something that works. Put anchor stores on the Fulton Mall: Longs Drugs(there already), grocery store, a strong general merchandiser, simple home funishings, work clothes, shoe store and make Fulton service the downtown worker bees! Make Fulton back into a street with store front parking. Easy to carry in and out merhandise and save shopper time. Keep it clean. Excellent tree cover for hot summer days. And quick eateries. Now all those hard working Moms and Grandmothers will make you RICH. Pluse the anchor stores will encourage the future hi-rish flat owners to start purchasing living quarters and walk safe downtown street to shop and enjoy. The new library in the Arts district will also help speed up the downtown improvements! Pay attention to the "Worker Bees" with check books and credit cards.
...and there you have it der Hyphenator
...now, we take the money that will be raised by people actually paying for what they use... (what a concept, kind of like actually charging folks for a box of donuts or something like it's a PURCHASE... (shhhhhhh, paying for the stuff you use... something new we're trying out..., some folks call it 'captitalism,' --but we're sort of bumping it as a way of actually caring for the place, you know, with responsibility and personal accountability,,, don't say nothin' we're being vewwy quiet...)
And...
then we put the money towards,,,,um, I dunno...
-Edumacation? (so that the kids have some actual future based upon developing their minds...)
-Public health??? (water is a public utility, of sorts... how about benefitting the public... (it's a stretch, -but doing it in an 'across the board sort of way...
---granted, you'll have folks from the upper end of the financial spectrum griping about throwing money down a well, supporting illegal immegrants, crack-heads, and 'street-persons,' ('...remember, kids, homeless are saintly, street-persons are dangerous vermin.' -that's a real quote, there, dontcha-know...)
-Or, if the above is TOOOO much a hot potato, putting it back into the water system itself, and developing better filtration techniques, (like, erm, any filtration techniques
(IE: Maybe some Recycling tech as well.)
or even some other 'public' things...
(gasp,) mass transit?
(and not some 'whiz-bang' 'gee NASA, look at us, we're pioneering all this new tech that costs a gazillion dollars,)
--but developing the present system to be actually
more effective,
or (how about,) just 'effective.'
...okay, how about... just '...hey, it works.'
-more CNG busses?
Kinda taking what we now have and working with it on some of these fronts...
I'm more in favor of increasing the flow financially to the schools.
That teachers have to pool their own money just to have (barely,) enough for kids to have projects and learning supplies, (they have to have 'classroom warming,' (like 'housewarming') parties with their friends pitching in money,
--just to buy freakin' construction paper fer-godssakes, so the kids aren't sitting in a room surrounded by bare painted cinderblock walls...)
---Makes me want to vomit and start screaming everytime I think of it... (and I'm not even in 'the Exorcist: the roadshow.')
I just seriously doubts the money that's going to be generated has been spoken for and spent, yet, ---and if it has been?
Who?
What?
and
How-come???
Thems public duccets, there folks...
(It's nice to hold some feet to the fire once in a while...
heck, in a month or two, won't even need fire...
the sidwalk will suffice...)
...oh wait, I forgot...
the folks holding the purse strings don't walk much, do they...
IWater meters are Coming Soon
Water meters have been in Clovis for years and it is set to come to Fresno next year I think. The newer houses already have the meters installed, but, the older houses will have to have them put in. Clovis residents use less water then those in Fresno due to these meters.
....erm, kids?
...wanna see your water supply suddenly become more than adequate?
Have citywide water meters...
(Shocking idea, I know, but durn near every other area I've lived in (cities especially,) have water meters, and you pay for your water, (and sewer, too.)
You'd be astounded how much water is used to make a desert 'green.'
-and if folks had to truly pay for what they were using, they'd use what they need, the funds could go to other worthy things,
-and the 'superusers,' would actually be contributing back...
That this area, (which would dry up and blow away in about 36hours, without regular use of water,) does NOT actually monitor the degree of such precious substance?
Shocks me big time...
percolation site
there was a small percolation site in downtown Fresno, but when the Baseball Stadium was built it was filled in. It was at Inyo & Broadway, H st & Kern.
If water is a proven people attractor then how come I never hear anyone saying they they are going to Roeding Park just to boat on Lake Washington, but Kearney Park which has no lakes or any water features besides a sprinkler system, still gets regular annual visitors.
The City of Fresno could not even maintain the past up keep of the fountains on the Fulton Mall (see the fountain that was turned in to a planter in front of the old Bank of Italy building) how will they ever manage a man made pond in downtown Fresno.
The river IS a GOOD idea...here's why
First: Water features are a proven "people" attractor, both in local usage, resulting econ dev around the feature, and also and perhaps more importantly, a destination attraction for tourism and conventions which brings huge economic dollars into the area. Almost every city which had constructed a large scale water feature such as canals/rivers/urban lakes...in our case a canal and a lake, has experienced economic growth around this zone and increased revitalization in the Downtown area they inhabit.
Second: Fresno's proposed canal/lake project also serves a most important environmental function as well: it will be used as a much needed water supply percolation site, recharging our ground water which we are quickly running out of. Wait till this summer hits us after the low rain and snow pack season. We'll see first hand how precious the water table is, and how essential it is to have this reserve constantly recharging. The functional reason it is being located Downtown is because the land in the Downtown area is sand based, which makes it a MUCH, MUCH easier and effective percolation site. The North side of town conversely suffers from hard pack...water does not percolate very well there. Holes have to be drilled in that pack to get water to make down to recharge...and at a fraction of volume the Downtown would provide.
The City is guilty of doing a very poor job of educating the citizenry of this fact to be sure, which is why most of the opinions are....well...uninformed
don't take this the wrong way,
but if you're gonna wait for the city to get its act together, you'll grow old & grey
& a correction on your basic premise here, not many cities have their "act together", its dumb luck for some, location, location, location for others.
people then just take advantage of all the things that were build prior, all those rowhouses back East, are part of how they build towns in those days
LA gets lofts out of warehouses & old office buildings? that was industry leaving, then changes let the old be re-arranged, we could do that too, but except for Reza, not many are willing to try
also, more people create more action, opportunities, jobs etc..., but there is only so far that will take you, its the people that need to get together, LA has over 56 art establishments per 100,000, NY only has about 15 per 100,000? I think we beat 15 per, easily
Los Angeles
Art establishments per 100,000 people: 56.105
Percentage of population age 25-34: 15.3%
Arts & Culture Index: 100
Diversity Index: 84.2
Cost of Living Index: 153
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/02/0226_artists/source/2.htm?campai...
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/02/0226_artists/source/5.htm
Single professionals need jobs
I agree with you completely, Jason. That is exactly the demographic that downtown should (and could) attract. However, in order for single professionals to have a reason to stay in Fresno (and therefore make a home anywhere in Fresno - much less downtown), there have to be jobs for them. Single professionals are extremely mobile and very picky about what cities they live in, and they choose to move to cities that offer them not only a wide variety of career opportunities, but also an enjoyable lifestyle, quality entertainment offerings, and a culture that welcomes them and allows them to advance professionally before they're in their 50s. Unfortunately, Fresno ranks pretty far down on the list with all of those criteria, hence the brain drain and mass exodus of 20-somethings to cities that actually have their acts together. A river isn't going to change anything.
Furthermore
Single professionals are exactly the demographic that is needed downtown. They have surplus cash to spend, and they have less need for parks, day care, schools, etc. Of course it'd be nice to accomodate families, but you have to start somewhere. Housing in Fresno is currently overpriced, so we don't even need to get into a discussion of purchasing versus renting. Let's just say for now that downtown needs market rate rental housing. Aside from Reza's project, I haven't heard of anything happening in the area.
Fresno Beach (River View Park)
Fresno Beach (aka River View Park) is still there, it probable would have to be restored to how it was, I've not gone to the location to look how it is today, but I know or have an Idea where it was.
It's on the Fresno side of the San Joaquin River and it's where the Fig Garden Golf Club is now.
It would be nice to see Fresno Beach and the area around it made easy to reach for the public like Reedley Beach and Cricket Hollow picnic park are on the Kings River in Reedley.
But Fresno does have Lost Lake and it's beach volleyball court.
poor people live downtown
if all it takes are people to live downtown to boost business, well people do live downtown unforchantly the census reports that the people that live downtown are poor and are lucky if they can make $14,000 a year, what downtown needs are people who make more money, but if you made more than $30,000 a year unless your single you more than likely would not live downtown. I you can afford to buy a home your not going to live downtown, and the areas near downtown, that are nice are old neighborhoods, very few homes are for sale and a lot of them need fixing up.
Two things.
If any of you are interested in the history of the valley, including a discussion of its geography, check out "The King of California" by Fresno native and LA Times writer Mark Arax. The geography of the valley lends itself to flooding, and this is why so many of the natural waterways, including the San Joaquin, Kings, Tule, etc. have dams on them. The natural waterways would flood periodically, and the water would spread over a very large area. The agricultural development of the valley couldn't have developed without flood control, but it has perhaps gone a bit too far.
As far as making downtown an attraction, housing is needed downtown. When people live there, businesses will have a built in client base to serve, and they'll be more willing to locate there. Until that happens, I don't see much commercial development taking place there. Until city council develops a plan to get housing downtown, anything else is pretty moot: too few people will be there to take enjoy any improvements.
it was called Millerton
kept getting flooded though, so when the railroad came by just a few miles down, they moved, changed the County seat too, then when they still kept getting flooded, they built Friant dam, now Millerton sits underwater & we're high & dry
when I worked down south, I had a client that had worked in the fields around Fresno as a youth, went to the pier & jumped into the SJ to cool off afterwards, I've seen pictures
do you know that steamboats came all the way from SF Bay to dock there? do you know there used to be a place called "Fresno Beach"? it still may be there?
river.
why didn't they build this town by the river the first time and save the trouble of making a pretend one?
It'd be perfect,...right
It'd be perfect,...right next the bass pro shop that makes no sense and isn't comming.
green parks downtown
Don't get me wrong, I'm for green parks, Downtown does have a nice Court House Park, Eaton Plaza, Fulton Mall... There could be some green zones planted in the vacant lots in Chinatown.
But that river in downtown San Jose is a real natural river, and not originally man made, all man did was work on it for flood control reasons. Speaking of Floods did you know that the San Joaquin river used to flood and it would flood all the way in to old Fig Garden... there are photos to prove this, but once the Friant Dam was built on the river the flooding stopped.
I just commenting that the $50k for a study on a downtown river walk thing was not needed, it's not a good idea to put in a river that's not original ... if they want to make and improve rivers, I can point out some canal banks around town they would make excellent river walks and green zones.
You want to bring people back to downtown just look at the past... when i look at the old photos of downtown, I see streetcars and lots of people cramming the streets, but maybe those old photos were taken at peek times, but then most downtown's are dead at night since a lot of those big downtown's are just financial businesses, government, and judicial business only open on weekdays during the day, and become dead at night, but bustling during those business hours.
Only the staying current trendy shopping malls (indoor and outdoor) have bustling business on the weekends and in to the early night.
I would plant a Movie theater with cutting edge technology, if it be some kind of virtual ride theater and traditional multi screen theater, and some trendy shops people want that are not in the area, also a place like House of Blues, or a Hard Rock Cafe' in to a shopping area south of the Fulton Mall and in to the Fulton Mall, also build more parking garages or underground parking or better signs to show where the existing ones are... and it will have to be Free Parking, or a minor parking price... maybe free for the first three hours then charge.
The downtown river idea
I saw that same episode of California's Gold on PBS the other day and I got a different take on it. I love Huell Howser. He cracks me up sometimes! He finds wonder in some of the most mundane things. It looked so nice to see a green swath right through the middle of San Jose. Reminded me of the Eaton Trail. And he said it was 10 degrees cooler down there, too. We desperately need more green spaces here in Fresno, especially in the downtown area. We also need more areas that people can walk, bike or whatever that doesn't allow cars. What's the annual budget for Fresno? I think 50k towards a project so beneficial is a drop in the bucket.
downtown riverwalk
Just a thought.....where is the Kern Street Promenade (or, reluctantly, Sports Town) at in all of this? I know that there are plans drawn up--but why is the money being diverted in yet another direction? I guess this is kind of a rhetorical question....
ineptitude on a grand scale
I'd laugh, but really, it's more sad than funny. Is city council so stuck for ideas that they had to spend 50K on something like this? How about traffic light synchronization, or a tax increment reinvestment zone? It seems council needs some help prioritizing...or did they get an Easter cash influx they haven't told anyone about?
There are so many other better ideas that could have used these funds. Be sure to let your councilman know how disappointed you are with this decision.
asinine
Is Calhoun the only one with any sense?
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