I wish each of you could have been down to MILANO on the Fulton Mall on Saturday. We had people eating, drinking, playing pool, listening to music (just jukebox for now) just about all day 'til 10:30 at night.
I have to admit I didn't get a chance to read EVERY word of each of these posts.
But I can say that so far the Downtown working community has been wholeheartedly supporting MILANO at lunchtime. We've even had some degree of success with the local residents in the evenings, and are looking forward to more. (close at 7pm)
We are getting to be open later at night soon. We will have music on Fri/Sat nites.
The Smokehouse just down from us is doing pretty well at night too.
Mezcal has been cool the few times I've been in at night.
I don't know how Joe's Steakhouse does at night, cuz I haven't made it over there yet, but they are inspired and enthusiastic.
Don't dismiss Downtown quite yet. There's some stuff goin' on that just might surprise you.
So come on Downtown at night. See how you like it.
Ride your bike down if you like. (MILANO is bike-friendly in the evening.)
AttyKendall

They always do. If there are customers in a location someone will set up shop there to serve them. This is always the case. A ten story building can be looked at in two ways. An empty building might as well be an empty lot to a retailer. The same building full of residents has a potential buying power ten times the equal size piece of land in the suburbs.
The economic potential of Downtown Fresno as the Valley's Big City, complete with a nightlife will never be unlocked until there are people living there in the thousands. Then the House of Blues might take us seriously.
It's not just about bringing customers in from outlying areas. They come into downtown whenever they think something hip is going on. If more and hipper people were living here there would be more hip things going on.

In Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan Mr. Spock sez: "His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."

As a former business owner in the wonderful town of Fresno, and a long time member of the music community, I can say for a fact; Fresno City is horrible in the way they treat local independent shops.
Try putting up a little sign or banner in front of your business and watch what happens. Ha!
They stop any local music venue from opening with a liquor license, (which they need to survive in any kind of a real world situation) and have been doing so for years. Not to mention the parking and traffic bullcrap studies which take so long, most just give up before ever opening! Notice for instance, the Nazi like police crackdowns that made the national news were outside one of the only live music venues in town?
See a pattern here?
If a House of Blues ever opens it will be a miracle, and I will get on my knees and kiss the blessed ground it sits on.
(*Looks at watch and sees time ticking away*)
Believe it or not, (and this dates me) Fresno used to be a rock and roll town, with many concerts happening every month. In fact, Avalon Attractions used to have an office here just to handle all the action.
I've been a resident of the valley for most of my life, and still live near Fresno, but I'm so glad I don't live in that town anymore. I do visit, but I hate going there. It's not the town it used to be. Fresno to me is SOUTH of Shaw, the North end of town looks like every other town, anywhere.
You let your downtown die, and elected several corrupt Jesus loving mayors who led to that destruction. But you have a lot of big ass churches now, like the one which used to be the cool Wilson Theatre where I saw White Zombie play last time I was there, and where I used to see movies when I was a kid. I played several concerts there myself, as did many other local artists.
Goodbye, gone.
I can't even stand to look at it, with all the memories I have of the fun times there.
(I won't talk about being backstage with Circus Bogus, to protect the innocent).
Now, Jesus plays there every week, with his outstretched hands scooping up money for the villain who owns it, and the mayor applauds. Ugh!
I really miss the town it used to be, even not so long ago. So sad.
Thank god for the Tower District, it's the only place I visit really, except when I shop at Trader Joes.
I'll certainly never open another business there, and I had a successful one for over 10 years. It really was the city government that made my final decision to leave.
Good luck, you need it.

It was mentioned that city government (and I am assuming the comment was made towards Fresno city government) is often unfriendly to businesses and so forth. Let me just say that although many actions on behalf of the City do not reflect a business friendly attitude (especially towards dance/hip-hop clubs and so forth), there are quite a few people there who are very interested in creating a more vibrant and diverse city and are willing to work with businesses to get there.

On a completely different note, speaking of the demise of Upstairs Downtown--rumor has it that Fresno is up in the top cities for restaurants per capita, which means that running a restaurant in this city is quite hard. I saw a comment thrown out there in this thread that although we are seeing the downfall of downtown restaurants lately, other parts of the city might be experiencing this same phenomenon. It's just a little rumor I heard, however...someone clarify that for me if you know more than I do. Despite that, I am still disappointed to hear that Upstairs Downtown is closing....what a shame that the niche for sustainable gourmet dining is not large enough in Fresno to support such a great place.

thereminman:
I agree with your last paragraph.

For everyone reading this, you're entitled to express yourself; but know that too much expression—while making you feel better—can make it harder for people to understand you.

I've actually been trying to get my head around
what's actually being spoken about on this thread---but as happens often online--the thread has sort of splayed out.
I thought at first it was about admitting that Fresno has problems and then attacking them dead on.-----ok, I can get behind that.

Then there was the bit about 'cheerleaders' wanting to gloss over problems.....yeah, doesn't seem like a good idea.

Then there seemed to be a bit about...what is it? avoiding any shopping except in approved areas like the Tower or Downtown-----hmmm, why would people adapt such
a stance?---This is not a rhetorical question. I think it's an interesting one.---and I'm not saying whether I live by that stance or not----but I wonder what y'all think:
Why would someone think it was important to spend their money in certain areas?

There was also a bit about length of posts---but that seems a bit off topic.

My scattered thoughts on these things:
If you love a kid, you praise it/encourage it when it's doing well (cheerleading?), you try and re-direct it if it's headed for trouble (grumping?), and if it's ailing, you try
and heal it (ah, getting to the root of the sickness---difficult, but important.)

Actually, most people I see that are involved in following their passion for our city seem to know these things. Problem is, most people (here, there & everywhere) just live their lives and when it comes to planning out The Golden City of Our Dreams, let the forces of money, the politicians, the developers and the capitalist system deal out their fate as far as 'city planning' goes, and *boing* you got Fresno.

This comment is only precariously related to the original post; I'm still trying to get my thoughts together on the real and interesting
problems you folks are batting around re: facing problems, etc.

But first this:

I may be mistaken, but do I sometimes read around here the belief that some folks wish to 'revive' Downtown in the 'nostalgic' sense? I do not think this is the case.
I think downtown supporters usually have seen that a vital and alive downtown is healthy for a city and *that* is why they want downtown to be pumped up.

Nostalgia is fun----it's indulged and enjoyed on the big giant "Lost Fresno" thread on this website, but it's nothing so serious.

I don't know if city government is hostile to bars and restaurants, but even if they were, I don't think that was primary factor behind the closing of Fresno Hofbrau and Fagans. I'm fairly certain, and someone feel free to correct me, that those establishments shut down due to lack of clientele. Assuming I'm correct, that points back to the lack of sufficient residential population in downtown to support certain types of businesses in the area.

A BIG part of the problem in Fresno is city government. It is extremely hostile to bars and restaurants in general. Let's see, government hostility and harassment closed Fagans and the Old Fresno Hofbrau in recent months. I learned last night that Blaze, the latest occupant of the old Peppermill building on Blackstone, was closed by the city this past week--its crime--spinning hip hop music at night. DejaVu on Blackstone recently banned hip hop after complaints from customers and a meeting called by the poice department.

Fresno's development paradigm is not conducive to population and business growth downtown. Developers continue to seek cheaper land on the outskirts of town. These newer developments do nothing for the center city. They instead contribute to sprawl and the resulting infrastructure problems, air pollution, reliance on middle east oil, etc, so on and so forth.

Craig and I disagree on this, but until you see ample market rate housing downtown, you will not see businesses such as Kern Street Books and Upstairs Downtown thrive. Businesses go where they can best serve their clients, or they go out of business. Downtown is not it. The businesses there serve the daytime worker population. As long as there isn't a significant population of residents, downtown won't be what we would like it to be: a dynamic, thriving, urban center.

As for how to get developers interested in downtown, that's a conversation you should all be having with your elected officials.

a lot of the concern could be summed up quite nicely with your initial response to my post, as well as the writer's 'Jasons.'

What has caused all of these problems? (With the town??)

In essence?
Flip answers
the need for bullet points
and behaviors that almost make ridalin a retro-drug.

Ed, I'm glad you read the post.
Not to be arrogant, but, again, it's a multi-fold issue, there are many points...
None of them are going to be worth anything.
None of the issues are going to be worth anything.
---and none of the 'life that is already happening,' -is going to be worth anything to someone who just 'wants it brief.'

Recognize the need for familiarity, uniformity, and 'this is what we understand, what we are comfortable with, and convenient.'
--and how that is styming finding real answers to these issues.

I think the point is vital.
The answer to Fresno being the butt of jokes and it's poor image is not to swing in some polar opposite.
---It really is all the same behavior...

'We had a past, the past was 'x,' at 'y,' location and it was filled with 'z,' people...
---how do we get back there.

Answer?
we don't.

Part of that leads into some of the biggest problems.

Like churches that do not 'deal with issues,' and society as it exists, (and as it changes,)
-Large amounts of Fresnans simply move to an area and recreate their own nostalgic version of 'what once was.'
-This alientates those who still live there, (hello, downtown.)
-It also buttresses and further polarizes people groups (away,) from actually blending, understanding, and growing (together,) as a city, ---and simply creates separate cities.

-And that's what's happening.

People will not throw money at something that they don't believe in, and they are not going to throw money at something that they (themselves,) are not going to completely enjoy (and get their money's worth,) out of the investment.
---Mix in the issue that this area is extremely self-absorbed, ---and you will have the following.

-People moving away from areas that they find 'unnattractive,'
-People moving away from people that they don't understand or find 'attractive,'
--and those areas (left behind,) will be (hopefully,) filled in with the next wave of 'newcomers.'

It's a very very myopic state of mind.
'...why should I drive fifteen minutes to go to something that is right next door.'
---good point.
-But if you don't want to, why should someone else? (In otherwords, if you don't care to support 'that effort/area,' -why should the branch of capitalistic altruism be carried by others?)

Sorry, I don't think others are going to suddenly become a league of Mother Theresa's and seek to develop downtown to be enjoyed by the people who presently live around the area, (any more than you will have a bunch of folks with money, -deliberately throwing money at anything else for those of another culture, -or in financial need.)

So the dilemma looms?
--How do we get the people who have money, to want to come downtown and spend (and want to hang out,) in a place where, for generations, -there is distaste?

It is not going to happen
unless (like in NYC,) people suddenly have an urge to go hang in a tougher and more 'adventurous,' area (such as what used to be the Lower East Side, Brooklyn, or Grenwich Village,)
--Those areas will, then gentrify, and 'yup,' out.

---So we are faced with either (changing,) downtown (massively,) to provide something that cannot be provided as immediately and as 'nicely,' as what now exists in RiverPark,
(which, btw, ---is also going to see a bit of a dip, --as further outlying areas (Sunnyside, West Fresno, and Champlain and Perrin are now developing THEIR own 'haunts.')

-or-

We acknowledge what people have been doing (but not admitting to,) all along.

-There are many little Fresno's to Fresno.
-They don't like each other, and they don't talk to each other.
-Some of them have boku bucks, some of them are piss poor.
-They will have to be governed and worked with separately (or at least recognized,) as such.

-Will that be a bad thing for the 'impoverished areas?'
Yeah.

-Because more of an official 'severance,' from the wealthy could mean less funds and benefits that come (taxes, etc,) from the wealthy in the other areas... (and we don't want to amputate people based upon their social, financial, and ethnic identities...
-Well, some do, but I don't.)

But, unlike your summation that my letter offered no real solutions, (and kind of lighted Carolyns view the same...)

The first thing that has to happen is honesty...
It can no longer be 'Fresno Right or Wrong,'

Fresno truly is wonderful for some, and is truly just 'waitin' ta die,' for others.
(That's a fact.)

---More than that, there has to be a serious recognition of how seriously polarized some of these groups, (in, quite frankly is waaaaay too small a town to be this compartmentalized...)
--And that has to be seen for what it is, plain and simple.

I forget which dictator it was, maybe it was all of them, but the general sentiment was '...let me have the children, let me educate and mold the minds of the children, ---cause once you do that, you have the whole country.'

-Well, that has happened...
Shockingly, ---there are twenty and thirty somethings that would no sooner step foot below Shaw (or Hearndon,) than eat a dead skunk...
---and in this town, (where they marry'm off young, bubba,) ---that means we now have
-the parents of the kids who have now grown,
-their kids
--who now have kids,
who have all cringed at the idea of 'Downtown,' or 'West Side,' --and have chosen to remain sealed against those places...

(Now,) ---That's one view, ---and it's the pervasive one...
--the Answer there, '....make something decent of downtown, and maybe I'll go, but probably not...'
-lets throw down stores that they want to go, lets build a lake, lets do something to draw the rich (jittery,) folks from their cloistered sections...

THAT

is actually in opposition to the folks who are still looking at downtown and insisting that the nostalgia is real, (or viably could happen again...)
--Because they want to preserve and restore, (not make 'NEW.')
...though admittedly BOTH come from a very 'self-ish,' view, (the one wants something cool, the other wants their fond memories back...)

THOSE TWO Groups?

Totally disregard reality...
Both are little more than steamrollers to the groups that are already there, (the 'non-white,')

---Because those two groups look at downtown, and say, '...there's nothing here...'
-when viable cultures most definitely are.

I don't know IF you are going to fix that.

-any more than you are going to look at the initial post and say, '...well, looka that, a viable point that needs to be discussed,'
-and not some '...is there a solution offered in there somewhere?'
-like the woman made no point at all...

The
Lead, follow, or get out of the way?

Simple.
While people are going on (endlessly,) about their ideas of what was, what is, what needs to happen, -and their precious territories that shalt not change, (and must be restored to the holy writ,)
---Others are quietly stepping in, building cool stuff, really being creative, ---and impressing the hell ot of me.

(Such as the Pearl, Vagabond, and Broadway Studios, (among others.)

I'm just glad that there are people from here who know how to treat background noise for what it is, -and are actually doing something.

Which really does conclude the same, in a way.
Regardless of what people think is happening, things most definitely ARE,,,
-will it be recognized?
-will people learn to see these cultures and these ways of life as being 'worthwhile,' or 'human?'

I dunno.
The answer so far for Fresno has been 'Move a little farther out, and avoideth...'

Good luck with that.

-oh darn.
Long again...

OotV
it's true i do work in the university setting, but it's also true that we're trying to have a discussion on a website messageboard (not always geared to length/depth). and although i don't think it's all about simple answers to a not so simple problem, i do agree with another poster about brevity. in no ways do i want to change who you are, or attack your style, but sometimes you lose clarity in your responses because the reader has to wind through so many trails, to unpack so many filled boxes.

but, i also accept that brief responses can be just as confusing and require further explanations. so, you be you. but, i'll encourage you to remember that sometimes your responses get difficult to follow.

so, i'm working through your response to look for your suggestions, here's what i see:
-fresno as a religion needs to stop
-Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.
-I'm not an advocate of disregarding one's heritage and past, but that which is not growing is dead.

i agree that we shouldn't have an uncritical eye when looking @ fresno. i also don't think we need to drink the kool aid and avoid going someplace (or avoid) another because it's not in our 'hood. although, i admit i am a firm believer in my 'hood. i usually look for entertainment there first. this does not mean i won't head north to pinedale or the subsequent further northern developments, but it does mean that they need to at least prove to me why i do need to drive fifteen to twenty minutes to get something i can walk to, or get to in five minutes. i also try to shop local over chain when i can, so that's going to be a factor i consider.

as to the ideas that we need to lead, follow, or get out of the way, exactly. this website is an example of something started by a forward thinking person in fresno, that wanted to celebrate and encourage development of culture in fresno. at first, it really was about life below (south) of belmont. now, it's spread to cataloging all of fresno culture (of which it is a bit inadequate at doing). arthop used to be pretty much a downtown thing. now, it's city wide, and there are even clovis stops. (i wonder if they're all official, dues paid stops - if you're going to use the moniker you should join the club officially). on a city gov't level, there are ideas being pushed out there, and some are good.

to your final point, if it's not growing it's dead. true, but how do we measure growth? you point out that fulton and much of the downtown core is vacant (very true after 5), but that the surrounding area is very alive and brown. so, it would be very difficult to truthfully say that this area is dead. some would even say that it is both racist and classist to make that claim. and, with development (like vagabond and it's next phase) there is growth. there is also a relatively new supermarket on tulare & first (just outside of downtown core). there is also a foodmaxx @ fresno & e (again, just a stone's throw from downtown core). so, we advancing the growth in the area. are businesses failing downtown? yes, for various reasons. do businesses fail in other parts of fresno? yes, for various reasons. but, based on the growth that is happening downtown, can we honestly say it's dead? is it the vibrant community that it should be? no.

i'll even throw out an unsupported, totally opinionated claim that businesses fail more frequently in the northern sections of fresno than they do in downtown (more are being started there, there are more total to fail) although i don't know if i'd apply that claim to business percentage-wise.

(where's scharton in all this? i'm all for longer threads, more involved discussion and action. and yes, i realize i haven't proposed any suggestions of my own yet. but i'm admitting that there are positive and negatives about fresno and still asking for some suggestions on how to make it better from the original post.)

Re: bullet points...
No.
Plenty has been written it's pretty clear, it's just multitiered and multi-fold. Ed, somehow you're with an area univeristy,,, that means you've run across expressed thought that is not 'bullet points,' before. This is not a faculty/staff meeting

-which leads to request 2.
---'Dude, Brevity...'

hey, nice riff.
Sometimes I do brevity, sometimes I don't.
On a subject like this?
Doubt it.

Maybe a wonderful way to start looking at this, and maybe making things a little better (in the future,)
-is to realize that these are not subjects that are going to be handled in soundbites,
-because if they were? Dontcha think someone would have done so already?

Don't sweat it, there is not a test at the end of the discussion, if there is, it will be dropped from your gradepoint average..

It's a discussion about your town...
Our town, actually.

I guess I'm contributing thus far by affirming Carolyns thoughts, well, that and choosing to stay here for the time being.

-what do you boys have?
(and you can take as long as you like, I don't have ADD.)

Dude, brevity.

uh, i admit i was lost in your voluminous response. can you sum up your suggestions, in bullet points, to the question of how you would like to make fresno better?

I am glad that she is saying it.
I'll be glad when others say it.
I'll feel even more hopeful when others listen to it, instead of water it down or neutralize it..

I'll be freakin over the moon if folks can clinically take the findings of each situaiton, and effectively learn from it and thank the efforts (even of failed,) businesses and (god ferbid,) use the knowledge effectively.

Business is business, and it's a clinical exercise.
Failure to see that or deal with it on those terms is delusional and economically dangerous.

If we review the situation of the 'pub.
-Having talked it over with dozens of folks (from varying stratus,) about their time spent there or being a part of things there.
-only one (one,) couple that I spoke with said that they had a positive experience, (and that was a situation where things started to go foul, -and it was made up for.)
-The rest? described it in terms that we've all heard, -and some not even expressed.
---What did we learn?
-Be nice to your patrons, serve good food, work well with others trying to set up events, (in short,) provide good service with the tool that you have (in this case, a pub,) and things will go well.
-Do the opposite? things will not go well.
-When things don't go well? Blameshift.
---Perhaps real message to other business owners? Deal with your own issues, so that others don't have to, (particularlly in a challanged area,) ---or they will walk.

KoffeeHeads.
-I have heard one bad thing... parking.
It is not as convenient as a local Starbucks with drive thru's and such.
Other than that? the place was great, and likely is closing due to competition being able to buy up more locations, have lower initial prices of their own (due to 'bulk buying,' ---and guaranteed capital due to a very powerful reputation (justly earned.)
--This is not 'sinister,' activity, nor should it be seen as such, -it is simply capitalism playing out with 'little guys,' not being able to compete... That, my friend, is simply the way of business and capitalism.
-Are their emotions in the situation? Of course. -but that cannot be confused with fact, and cannot be the motive and reasons that will show what went wrong, ---IF something went wrong at all.

Upstairs Downtown...
-Though I have not had the occasion to go there, people that I am quite close to have always loved this place and raved about the food, the service, and savor the experience to being (realistically,) a once a year experience, (their wedding anniversary... they simply don't have the bucks to 'splash out,' on the place that often...)
-They have said that 'the location is awful, but once you are there, it's magnificent.'

The fourth place mentioned? No opinnion.

Where I think Carolyn has hit on a serious point, ---that needs to be considered and not taken defensively (at all)

Fresno DOES have a complex about itself.
It CAN taint everything...
It DOES force people to be either 'pro,' or 'con,'
--and that spin will throw a serious and clinical study about what works and why every time.

Though Fresno has it's 'religious, and devout,' (within their own beliefs,)
'FRESNO as a Religion,' (meaning that looking at it clinically is verbotten, ---as one would not dare challange a religious tenent, (no matter how outlandish or unusual it may seem,)
HAS to stop.

-You can believe in the Fresno of Old
-You can have your opinions based upon complete error
-You can cling desperately to arguements that will not end (because they are based upon 'the gut feeling,' (rather than truth.)
---But doing all of this will not get you to any legitimate answers.

(...This is where I think Carolyn is genius in conveying a simple and necessary truth.)

It's not '...gee Fulton Mall seems to be dying, what can we do to bring people back...'

-It's:
---The people HAVE moved, and they are now focussing upon Riverpark, Vilaggio, Fashion Fair,
---and now the outlying areas (Sunnyside, West Fresno, N. Fresno,)
---and that is where we have to go to have foottraffic. (period.)

-Then there's the DEEPER truths:
-Downtown (the business parts, etc.)
---is largely vacant...
-But Downtown and headed off into Kings Canyon and Sunnyside are NOT Vacant, ---they're just not particularly 'white.'
---(Yet those areas are called 'vacant,' too...)
What's up with that?
Are these not people? Can a business not cater to 'those people,' too? --apparently not?

I mean, seriously?

When you are fishing, you fish where there are fish to be caught.
If one type of fish is running at this time of year, (or this part of the river,
---then you adapt your technique and lure
--and catch THOSE fish... (that's if your GOAL is to catch fish...)

---If you have issues with 'what kind of fish do I want to catch?? ('I don't like some fish, vs. others.')
---Than, okay, don't eat,
---but DON'T say that there aren't any fish out there...

If Upstairs Downtown relocated to Riverpark, would they make it as Upstairs Uptown???
-maybe.

-But you can bet your boots that there will be a HUGE stink made by the 'followers of the cult of downtown,' (just like the 'followers of the cult of 'tower,'
---that Upstairs Downtown has violated the religious code and 'abandoned the faith,' of 'Downtown.'

-Again, missplaced faith, complete disregard (from the followers of that religion,) as to what the goal is...
-and an adherance to opinion and stubborness ('..how dare they move, how dare they make wise business choices, how dare they comment about FRESNO...!')

Sad, really sad.

Will it be finally 'dealt with,' some day?

Yes and no.

For every 'Carolyn,' who even respectfully states
'...um, kids, something is wrong here, and we need to really address it, you care, I care, and we need to do something...'

-There will be a nullifying remark that will throw cologne on the problem and pretend that 'it's not really 'that...'
-Which demonstrates the issue beautifully:
-You CAN'T be clinical about 'Fresno,'
(-we're only reading 'the good mail,' and listening to 'the good news,' today...)

This is how it will change.

(Ready? this is going to hurt, but I would rather light an candle than curse the darkness... just this once.)

Others,
such as myself, are going to come here and try to live.

Some will leave, and not tolerate the transition.

Others will be 'stuck here,' (as one Fresno native explained to me last night, where both his grandparent and Parents had cars that broke down in Fresno on the way to somewhere else... ---and wound up staying.)

-Regardless?

Others will move here, and we're not going to give a rats ass about the territories, and we're going to shake our heads and wonder aloud (to other newcomers,)
(...who are in their twenties, ---and have never been downtown or on the 'west side,' (ever!,) because 'that's where the monsters live.')

(And we're going to shake our heads and wonder (aloud,) at those tho are in their thirties, forties, fifties, (etc.) who refuse to go to Riverpark, Villagio, NE (you name it,) Fresno
'...because those are a bunch of white snobs and that's not REALLY Fresno...')

Fine,,,,
but when you're NOT from here, and you find out that you can cross the town (from vacant fields to the west over to vacant fields to the east,) in less than fifteen minutes,
---you shut out the prejudice of the 'natives,' -and choose to embrace the place as a whole, or tell it to take a hike,
---and move elsewhere.

That's the choice that people like me have to make.
(And yes, we do think some of the stances and reasons behind the territorialism is baffling... further baffling? people who are from here who acknowledge the folly of it, ---yet STILL do it.)

Carolyn, is right.

It's wrong to 'dis,' Fresno for things that aren't wrong.
It's wrong NOT to 'dis,' the things that are wrong, just as much.

Flipside?
'Fresno-Right-Or-Wrong!... go, go, rah rah.' -is just as lemming as well.
-It would be nice to simply say '..Fresno needs to deal with it's issues, and stop feigning and fronting..'

The herd/gang mentality (be it positive or negative,) has to be exposed and abandoned, (sorry, there it is.)

---but plenty of Fresnans never have, plenty never will, and will not find significant enough reason to feel the need to deal with their own issues, and that includes on a municipal level.. (It will always be 'someone elses' fault/responsibility.)

--But Fresno is going to grow.
It will grow by way of people like myself, (who come here for whatever reason,,,)

-And, because we live here, spend our money here, make our business' here, we will become 'Fresno.'
(I can't believe that I just wrote that about myself, but what the hell, I have a driver's license with a Fresno Address,,, it will be two years this fall...)

-And to be honest?
Just like the people who initially settled the place, (who had no time for excess legacy?)

We're going to be too busy building and creating, (which means dealing with our own issues -as well as those that we are presented with by the location/people,)
-And simply will not have time to spend on all the 'Fresno-Drama.'

The people who started 'here,' or were stuck here, simply got on with it, and knew what they were leaving,
-and what they wanted to do (instead.)
---Thousands more (just like them,) are now coming here.
--Some of us already are...

As to those who are sitting around endlessly wasting time, energy, effort, emotion, and any sense of hope for these 'sacred,' grounds?
it comes down to this:

-Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.

We're burning daylight, folks.
There is no other way to say it.

I'm not an advocate of disregarding one's heritage and past, but that which is not growing is dead.
Period.

(And: for Upstairs Downtown:

-How to say this...
Well,
Thank you for providing a wonderful paradise each year for my cousins, (who praise you and your efforts.)

To me? You are a grail that will always be in front of me, of sorts.

I chose not to 'just go there,' for the hell of it.
-It would have been nice to have a spouse of my own to take there, once a year, and to just sit there, both of us beautiful, smellin' great, in such an enchanted place...
-but such was not in the works, (yet.)

-How about we both not give up on the effort, entirely, and maybe someday, who knows...?
You open up someplace somewhere else,,,,

I find me a partner in crime?
(and save the bucks to take her there...)
-and we do dinner somewhere off on the horizon...
(and everybody goes home happy.)

Thank you for being here as long as you have.
My cousins both work very very hard, one has an extremely dangerous job, and the oasis you provided them, again, just made their eyes shine. They do NOT impress easily, they know good from bad, and they raved about you, every time.

Bless you on your future endeavours.

-Eric Field

carolyn,
i think you're right that it's hard to make it downtown. but, i don't think people are saying that everything in fresno is good (or deluding ourselves as you say) by trying to point out the strengths/good things in fresno. in reading the links you provided to closed fresno businesses there very much is a common thread about the difficulty to stay alive as a business in many parts of town (after all, koffeeheads was located in pinedale, errrrr, vilagio. btw, they also used to be @ first & bullard as well as downtown.)

"Why can't we admit both of these things and then proceed to have a realistic discussion about how to make Fresno better?"

okay, i admit both of these things (fresno has problems, fresno has good things). How would you like to make fresno better?