There is enough money, there is enough creativity, there is enough vision for the town to 'save itself,'
--And, with all this 'I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm great,' mindset that california has been shovelling itself for the past several decades
we got talent, we got ideas
ArtHop, Reza, Scharton, CART, WET, CVBI
What was the significance of linking the New Mexico tourism link? Was it to suggest that only Mr. Trump can afford to take a $2,400 bicycle tour through New Mexico? There is a reality gap of what this has to do with Fresno.
The Scottish rejected Donald Trump's effort to build a very large golf course there. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/29/wtrump12...
One farmer whose refused to sell his 23 acre farm was featured:
The decision also delighted Michael Forbes, 55, a local resident who refused to sell Mr Trump his 23 acres of land on the edge of the scheme.
Mr Trump said on his last visit to Aberdeen that the small farm was an eyesore, and Mr Forbes responded by telling him to "stick his money".
He was not at the meeting but his wife Sheila said they were "surprised but happy".
Mr Forbes said he was "over the moon" after hearing the result.
He added: "Hopefully, Trump has now got the message that we're not a bunch of cabbages up here.
"We've managed fine without him up to now and we'll get on just as well without him."
I think the final line in this last comment betrays a greater problem. 'fall into the hands of Mr. Trump and once again will be a savior.'
It's that whole 'saving,' word.
Trump is not looking to be anyone's savior. He's a professional who develops businesses, properties, and makes money doing so. He's not calling himself some benevolent culturally aware organization out to better or worsen anyones lives, -He's in business for what he does and will follow the rules of the law to build and protect his own intersts, -as well as the people who he represents. (He's not Amnesty International.)
--And there's nothing wrong with that, so long as he plays by the rules, -and so long as people understand that the rules are not about 'helping everybody and the town of Fresno out,' -nor should they be.
Looking at his motives and actions from the wrong perspective? Not wise.
-You'll wind up being dissappointed, -when he buys things at the lowest dollar, -invests as stringently and with as much focus on 'how much do I have to put into this ---to get the most out of it,' (mentality,) as possible.
(It's far different than '...you're here to help us, you have OUR best interests at heart in this (as a town, as individuals, as 'culture,')
--Though I'm sure the guy and his organization is not looking to be a demon, --he's not ascribing to be an angel either.
Why Fresno needs 'saving.'
It increasingly impresses me (as an example of something gone terribly wrong,) -how, in a state, where people are so profoundly wrapped up in competition, so deeply involved and concerned with themselves, -as well as their standing (both as individuals and as towns,)
-How, for being so 'self-aware, so self-actualized, and so self-concious,'
-There is still this 'need,' to be 'saved,' by an outsider.
One the one hand you admit to somebody from outside here being able to develop and build up the town and 'save,' it.
On the other hand? You resent that ANYONE come in and do anything, -let alone improve what is already here (with this '...who do they think they are, damn outsiders...' mentality.
There is enough money, there is enough creativity, there is enough vision for the town to 'save itself,'
--And, with all this 'I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm great,' mindset that california has been shovelling itself for the past several decades, ---it does beg the question
1. If that route '...I'm as actualized, and evolved and have grown to the best of my potential.' --Why is my life, my town, my culture so screwed up.'
2. 'If the above it true, -why do we need outsiders to straighten this mess out?'
Looking to Trump or anyone else to develop deals, buy out situations that have failed, -and 'save,' the town is showing a major dependency on others, --where the city needed to learn to deal with their own issues.
--Anyone coming in and 'saving,' the place?
-Will just forstall the town and it's people from actually sorting their own concerns out, --and enable people to remain so pre-occupied, so separatist, so unwilling to work with each other, and let the place go on, like a bunch of spoiled brats -who are allowed to be so pre-occupied and self-centered.
Will this change and will people stop being this way?
Probably not.
-Will Trump come in and buy the whole deal at an auction? Probably. -But that's just the nature of business.
-Would the deal have gone differently if it was a less complicated package during the negotiation process? (Who Knows, --if the guy had the ability to see the potential, -but know that he could get it at a greatly reduced rate later on (if he just waited for the whole thing to collapse further,) --the results may have been the same.
-So that may not have changed.
In reality, the only thing that Fresno had (and still has,) to change in the picture? Itself, and how it wishes to grow and change. (And whether it wants to do so as a cohesive unit, with less 'gimme, gimme, I got mine, screw you,' mindset.
Sometimes, however, even handling things with a more 'others centered,' focus, that is not so inward? Means end results where somebody else 'wins,' --and ones own 'win,' is not immediate and as loud.
-Until the town and area sees that? It will remain so ruthlessly competetive, with a few being 'number one,'
---all the while spiralling downward.
(While others who have no interst in their image and their culture, buy out the wreckage on the cheap, -and make whatever they want out of it.)
They're not saviors or assasins, -they're just taking advantage of the opportunity that this town repeatedly offers them, again and again.
Submitted by Famous Guest (not verified) on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 20:54
Trump will eventually get the property in an auction bid. Come he's a billionaire and he will eventually build up the southern part of the city with projects like a new movie theater, hotel, shopping centre, houses, more retail, downtown buildings, maybe a Trump Hotel and of course Running Horse. It so obvious because the man has got money and he sees that we are in need of a vibrant part to the city. So I really think the whole area will fall into the hands of Mr. Trump and once again will be a savior.
Submitted by ES (not verified) on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 11:11
> That's pretty bad for this to happen to Running Horse.
> Running Horse has a lot of potential for the 21st
> century. The people the investors that had the vision
> and dream are the ones that will perish as in the movie
> 300 spartans against a marauding invader that has
> millions to take over and change things in California,
> and the city of Fresno. If Trump was smart buy it at 70
> million and in 5 years this will become a Mega-tropolis
> city of the future complete with palm trees,airport,
> elevated mono-rail system,tall energy efficient sky-
> scrapers an efficient hwy system that goes to Yosemite
> Los Angeles, San Francisco and so on. In this day and age
> where there is a war going on overseas the Veterans the
> warriors that protect this country will also lose and
> fade away as men that did not know the meaning of
> sacrifice. This is a small world, small planet.
> To Mr. Trump Do it right! and they will come to give
> praise to the savior not an invader. EJS-Monterey
Trump has been doing his thing back in the Tri-State Area for about a quarter of a century (at least... I mean, I remember when he put up his casino in 'Jersey in my Jr. Year of H.S.)
To understand what I meant by him 'seeing opportunities,' you have to see him from different eyes.
--If you're looking for a knight in shining armor, he's not your man.
In fact, that man doesn't exist on such a level, and cannot.
Trump is all about business, and all about making money, (I don't think he makes too many bones about it.)
The project he's checking out that is in question could be something he's looking to build up and 'make happen,' -because this area is going to boom, (residential wise,) -and it may be a good money maker to have a place for folks to play golf (and they will be attraced to something Trump builds, -most of his stuff is pretty amazing, and well done.)
OR
It could be a 'knock-down,' (IE: he takes up the land, then sells it off later.)
Such is the way of investing, developing, and selling.
None of these people are Mother Theresa, -and emotions and nostalgia (nor cultural sensitivity beyond what is required,) usually don't play into their plans.
-It's purely 'the art of the deal,' -with the greatest financial after-effects gone after.
Even in Atlantic City, (Jersey,) which was a real sleepy little ghost resort on the atlantic, ---once the casinos were built and such, -the towns really didn't benefit, (it did not build up the surrounding area,)
Instead, the money was made, the people who were making the money usually were from elsewhere, -and when they went home at night, the money went with them...
-So the people in the town who were not part of that 'business,' (which is a hellish business indeed,) really were no better off, and actually quite a bit worse off, -as the casinos attracted all sorts of illegal 'side business.'
If Fresno wants someone to mount up on a horse and save them?
They will have to do it themselves.
I said it would be interesting to see what Trump does.
I did not say it was guaranteed to be pleasant.
(Again, if he builds, it will be to encounter and provide something to people who are realllllly into golf, -who want to go there.)
but I'm betting that if he heard of "Quay Valley" down in Kings County, the idea of a "Trump City" might be too much temptation for an egomaniac like him to pass up & all of a sudden, deals start flying, money changing hands & first we have "Trump Estates", then "Trump City"
want development? he could tear down Chinatown & the Westside & combine lots up to Kearney on one side to the SJ River, then south along the 99 & 41 to Easton
you want a water feature, how about a fountain that shots water 150 ft in the air & spells "T R U M P" in Morse code? Then goes into a rendition of William Tell's Overture with laser lights & water cannons!!!
Come on everyone, we need to get realistic about this. Trump is a sleaze. As nice as it would be to have him running in on his high horse (no pun intended), we have to be realistic about Trump and his reputation.
Trump just finished his new golf course down in LA, called Trump National I believe. It is surrounded by multi-million dollars homes and borders along the coastline. It is the trophy golf-course any billionaire golf lover would love to have. He has also been lobbying to get a PGA tourney there for years.
Let us put 2 and 2 together here. Do you really think he wants to dump millions of dollars into a dirty Southwest Fresno gamble? He is trying to get our tour stop, plain and simple.
My prediction, he will buy Running Horse for a bargain, probably talk the city into subsidizing half the purchase, move the PGA tourney to his course in LA, then chop up and sell the remains of Running Horse to all of Fresno's local developers. The dream that was Running Horse will be dead and sent to the glue factory, and those few that bought those custom homes out there years ago will be surrounded by cheap tracts straight from the cookie cutter.
Trump is not a philanthropist; he is in it to make the most money as quickly as possible. I hate to rain on everyone's Trump parade, but this is not our night in shinning armor.
If / That he's taking interest, means something is up.
The Donald knows how to make money, that's fer sure..
He's also a total germaphobe, and refuses to shake hands with anyone... (but then again, he's got enough money, he can be as strange as he wants to be...)
Trump Blvd
Trump Road
Trump Lane
Trump Court
Trump Drive
Trump Way
Trump Hiway
Via Trump
Avenida Trump
did I miss any possible names?
just think KimBurly, next time you give directions you'll have to learn all those names or start calling everything minus his name as in "I live at 2750 the Road, just west of the Blvd"
he gets deals, tax incentives, streets named after him, a golf course & development probably named "Running Horse GC @ Trump Estates" & a PGA stop called the "Trump Challenge" or the "Triumphant Trump Tour"
& if he asked his bean counters what all the land he saw from his plane would cost to put a city between Chandler AP & Kearney Mansion, he'll get a deal from the County to put all those 3 & 50 acre plots together & get "Trump City" on the map in Fresno County, then all of a sudden Fresno will be squeezed hard by those 2 dynamos; Clovis & TC
That area being called TC would get rid of one problem I've had since moving here, not knowing which "Westside" they mean, until I get clarification. Westside Fresno, as in by Chandler Airport, or Westside Fresno County, as in by Coalinga
I live down the street from running horse and I'm hoping Mr. Trump takes an interest, I'd much rather tell my friends "Make a right at Donald Trump's newest investment" than the usual "Make a right at the miserable failure". Of course, I don't want it to do too well, that would mean my home would be in danger of the city wanting to use our 3 acres for a 50 squeezed in homes or a shopping center with a starbucks. I can't raise chickens with a coffee shop in my yard! /rant
Not likely. This project is too big for Fresno and will require a massive cash infusion to complete. Trump buys distressed assets; running horse has plenty of distress, but not enough asset. The current market won't even support the associated home sales. I predict the project gets canceled and the land developed for tract homes. Two holes complete? Cut and run.
I thounk it too
OotV said:
we got talent, we got ideas
ArtHop, Reza, Scharton, CART, WET, CVBI
I missed a few 100 from this list
What was the significance of linking the New Mexico tourism link? Was it to suggest that only Mr. Trump can afford to take a $2,400 bicycle tour through New Mexico? There is a reality gap of what this has to do with Fresno.
I wonder, Mr. Trump, have you ever been on a new mexico bus tours? Do you know how that is? Or do you just take your helicopter to go downstairs?
Scotland Rejects Trump's Golf Resort
The Scottish rejected Donald Trump's effort to build a very large golf course there. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/29/wtrump12...
One farmer whose refused to sell his 23 acre farm was featured:
The decision also delighted Michael Forbes, 55, a local resident who refused to sell Mr Trump his 23 acres of land on the edge of the scheme.
Mr Trump said on his last visit to Aberdeen that the small farm was an eyesore, and Mr Forbes responded by telling him to "stick his money".
He was not at the meeting but his wife Sheila said they were "surprised but happy".
Mr Forbes said he was "over the moon" after hearing the result.
He added: "Hopefully, Trump has now got the message that we're not a bunch of cabbages up here.
"We've managed fine without him up to now and we'll get on just as well without him."
not to beat a dead horse
okay, perhaps not the greatest of puns...
I think the final line in this last comment betrays a greater problem. 'fall into the hands of Mr. Trump and once again will be a savior.'
It's that whole 'saving,' word.
Trump is not looking to be anyone's savior. He's a professional who develops businesses, properties, and makes money doing so. He's not calling himself some benevolent culturally aware organization out to better or worsen anyones lives, -He's in business for what he does and will follow the rules of the law to build and protect his own intersts, -as well as the people who he represents. (He's not Amnesty International.)
--And there's nothing wrong with that, so long as he plays by the rules, -and so long as people understand that the rules are not about 'helping everybody and the town of Fresno out,' -nor should they be.
Looking at his motives and actions from the wrong perspective? Not wise.
-You'll wind up being dissappointed, -when he buys things at the lowest dollar, -invests as stringently and with as much focus on 'how much do I have to put into this ---to get the most out of it,' (mentality,) as possible.
(It's far different than '...you're here to help us, you have OUR best interests at heart in this (as a town, as individuals, as 'culture,')
--Though I'm sure the guy and his organization is not looking to be a demon, --he's not ascribing to be an angel either.
Why Fresno needs 'saving.'
It increasingly impresses me (as an example of something gone terribly wrong,) -how, in a state, where people are so profoundly wrapped up in competition, so deeply involved and concerned with themselves, -as well as their standing (both as individuals and as towns,)
-How, for being so 'self-aware, so self-actualized, and so self-concious,'
-There is still this 'need,' to be 'saved,' by an outsider.
One the one hand you admit to somebody from outside here being able to develop and build up the town and 'save,' it.
On the other hand? You resent that ANYONE come in and do anything, -let alone improve what is already here (with this '...who do they think they are, damn outsiders...' mentality.
There is enough money, there is enough creativity, there is enough vision for the town to 'save itself,'
--And, with all this 'I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm great,' mindset that california has been shovelling itself for the past several decades, ---it does beg the question
1. If that route '...I'm as actualized, and evolved and have grown to the best of my potential.' --Why is my life, my town, my culture so screwed up.'
2. 'If the above it true, -why do we need outsiders to straighten this mess out?'
Looking to Trump or anyone else to develop deals, buy out situations that have failed, -and 'save,' the town is showing a major dependency on others, --where the city needed to learn to deal with their own issues.
--Anyone coming in and 'saving,' the place?
-Will just forstall the town and it's people from actually sorting their own concerns out, --and enable people to remain so pre-occupied, so separatist, so unwilling to work with each other, and let the place go on, like a bunch of spoiled brats -who are allowed to be so pre-occupied and self-centered.
Will this change and will people stop being this way?
Probably not.
-Will Trump come in and buy the whole deal at an auction? Probably. -But that's just the nature of business.
-Would the deal have gone differently if it was a less complicated package during the negotiation process? (Who Knows, --if the guy had the ability to see the potential, -but know that he could get it at a greatly reduced rate later on (if he just waited for the whole thing to collapse further,) --the results may have been the same.
-So that may not have changed.
In reality, the only thing that Fresno had (and still has,) to change in the picture? Itself, and how it wishes to grow and change. (And whether it wants to do so as a cohesive unit, with less 'gimme, gimme, I got mine, screw you,' mindset.
Sometimes, however, even handling things with a more 'others centered,' focus, that is not so inward? Means end results where somebody else 'wins,' --and ones own 'win,' is not immediate and as loud.
-Until the town and area sees that? It will remain so ruthlessly competetive, with a few being 'number one,'
---all the while spiralling downward.
(While others who have no interst in their image and their culture, buy out the wreckage on the cheap, -and make whatever they want out of it.)
They're not saviors or assasins, -they're just taking advantage of the opportunity that this town repeatedly offers them, again and again.
Future
Trump will eventually get the property in an auction bid. Come he's a billionaire and he will eventually build up the southern part of the city with projects like a new movie theater, hotel, shopping centre, houses, more retail, downtown buildings, maybe a Trump Hotel and of course Running Horse. It so obvious because the man has got money and he sees that we are in need of a vibrant part to the city. So I really think the whole area will fall into the hands of Mr. Trump and once again will be a savior.
Trumping the right cards in Fresno
> That's pretty bad for this to happen to Running Horse.
> Running Horse has a lot of potential for the 21st
> century. The people the investors that had the vision
> and dream are the ones that will perish as in the movie
> 300 spartans against a marauding invader that has
> millions to take over and change things in California,
> and the city of Fresno. If Trump was smart buy it at 70
> million and in 5 years this will become a Mega-tropolis
> city of the future complete with palm trees,airport,
> elevated mono-rail system,tall energy efficient sky-
> scrapers an efficient hwy system that goes to Yosemite
> Los Angeles, San Francisco and so on. In this day and age
> where there is a war going on overseas the Veterans the
> warriors that protect this country will also lose and
> fade away as men that did not know the meaning of
> sacrifice. This is a small world, small planet.
> To Mr. Trump Do it right! and they will come to give
> praise to the savior not an invader. EJS-Monterey
a little clarity on the Donald
Trump has been doing his thing back in the Tri-State Area for about a quarter of a century (at least... I mean, I remember when he put up his casino in 'Jersey in my Jr. Year of H.S.)
To understand what I meant by him 'seeing opportunities,' you have to see him from different eyes.
--If you're looking for a knight in shining armor, he's not your man.
In fact, that man doesn't exist on such a level, and cannot.
Trump is all about business, and all about making money, (I don't think he makes too many bones about it.)
The project he's checking out that is in question could be something he's looking to build up and 'make happen,' -because this area is going to boom, (residential wise,) -and it may be a good money maker to have a place for folks to play golf (and they will be attraced to something Trump builds, -most of his stuff is pretty amazing, and well done.)
OR
It could be a 'knock-down,' (IE: he takes up the land, then sells it off later.)
Such is the way of investing, developing, and selling.
None of these people are Mother Theresa, -and emotions and nostalgia (nor cultural sensitivity beyond what is required,) usually don't play into their plans.
-It's purely 'the art of the deal,' -with the greatest financial after-effects gone after.
Even in Atlantic City, (Jersey,) which was a real sleepy little ghost resort on the atlantic, ---once the casinos were built and such, -the towns really didn't benefit, (it did not build up the surrounding area,)
Instead, the money was made, the people who were making the money usually were from elsewhere, -and when they went home at night, the money went with them...
-So the people in the town who were not part of that 'business,' (which is a hellish business indeed,) really were no better off, and actually quite a bit worse off, -as the casinos attracted all sorts of illegal 'side business.'
If Fresno wants someone to mount up on a horse and save them?
They will have to do it themselves.
I said it would be interesting to see what Trump does.
I did not say it was guaranteed to be pleasant.
(Again, if he builds, it will be to encounter and provide something to people who are realllllly into golf, -who want to go there.)
One more item
You forgot the 50 foot boulder of pure granite he'll have moved in from Yosemite where he can have his face carved into, Call it Mt. Trumpmore.
you're probably right,
but I'm betting that if he heard of "Quay Valley" down in Kings County, the idea of a "Trump City" might be too much temptation for an egomaniac like him to pass up & all of a sudden, deals start flying, money changing hands & first we have "Trump Estates", then "Trump City"
want development? he could tear down Chinatown & the Westside & combine lots up to Kearney on one side to the SJ River, then south along the 99 & 41 to Easton
you want a water feature, how about a fountain that shots water 150 ft in the air & spells "T R U M P" in Morse code? Then goes into a rendition of William Tell's Overture with laser lights & water cannons!!!
The Truth about Trump
Come on everyone, we need to get realistic about this. Trump is a sleaze. As nice as it would be to have him running in on his high horse (no pun intended), we have to be realistic about Trump and his reputation.
Trump just finished his new golf course down in LA, called Trump National I believe. It is surrounded by multi-million dollars homes and borders along the coastline. It is the trophy golf-course any billionaire golf lover would love to have. He has also been lobbying to get a PGA tourney there for years.
Let us put 2 and 2 together here. Do you really think he wants to dump millions of dollars into a dirty Southwest Fresno gamble? He is trying to get our tour stop, plain and simple.
My prediction, he will buy Running Horse for a bargain, probably talk the city into subsidizing half the purchase, move the PGA tourney to his course in LA, then chop up and sell the remains of Running Horse to all of Fresno's local developers. The dream that was Running Horse will be dead and sent to the glue factory, and those few that bought those custom homes out there years ago will be surrounded by cheap tracts straight from the cookie cutter.
Trump is not a philanthropist; he is in it to make the most money as quickly as possible. I hate to rain on everyone's Trump parade, but this is not our night in shinning armor.
...again
If / That he's taking interest, means something is up.
The Donald knows how to make money, that's fer sure..
He's also a total germaphobe, and refuses to shake hands with anyone... (but then again, he's got enough money, he can be as strange as he wants to be...)
Trump Avenue
Trump Blvd
Trump Road
Trump Lane
Trump Court
Trump Drive
Trump Way
Trump Hiway
Via Trump
Avenida Trump
did I miss any possible names?
just think KimBurly, next time you give directions you'll have to learn all those names or start calling everything minus his name as in "I live at 2750 the Road, just west of the Blvd"
he knows that
he gets deals, tax incentives, streets named after him, a golf course & development probably named "Running Horse GC @ Trump Estates" & a PGA stop called the "Trump Challenge" or the "Triumphant Trump Tour"
& if he asked his bean counters what all the land he saw from his plane would cost to put a city between Chandler AP & Kearney Mansion, he'll get a deal from the County to put all those 3 & 50 acre plots together & get "Trump City" on the map in Fresno County, then all of a sudden Fresno will be squeezed hard by those 2 dynamos; Clovis & TC
That area being called TC would get rid of one problem I've had since moving here, not knowing which "Westside" they mean, until I get clarification. Westside Fresno, as in by Chandler Airport, or Westside Fresno County, as in by Coalinga
I live down the street from running horse and I'm hoping Mr. Trump takes an interest, I'd much rather tell my friends "Make a right at Donald Trump's newest investment" than the usual "Make a right at the miserable failure". Of course, I don't want it to do too well, that would mean my home would be in danger of the city wanting to use our 3 acres for a 50 squeezed in homes or a shopping center with a starbucks. I can't raise chickens with a coffee shop in my yard! /rant
..this is an interesting barometer
The Donald does not always do stuff that makes sense right off the bat, -but he's not apt to throw money away...
-If he does go with this, it's because he knows something, and because something is about to boom...
Put a fork in it.
Not likely. This project is too big for Fresno and will require a massive cash infusion to complete. Trump buys distressed assets; running horse has plenty of distress, but not enough asset. The current market won't even support the associated home sales. I predict the project gets canceled and the land developed for tract homes. Two holes complete? Cut and run.
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