Teens will be teens. Anywhere in the whole is the same. Just let them be...

Teenage is a phasing phase. Eventually, they will move beyond the 'noisy' phace

I think a Downtown all-age club would still work. There are empty buildings there to use, you would not have many neighbors to complain about any noise at night. The City Council has or is debating to change the noise ordinance to allow music later in the evening for downtown. Teens would be a good pioneering group to start bringing a night life back to the downtown . If their parents drop them off as they did for Patterson Hall or they do now for River Park, the parking shortage would not be a problem.

I was raised by conservatives, on a ranch (Temperance & Belmont area), so I would have never been allowed to attend something like this, and doubt anyone in my Jr High or High School would have either. I was too into other things at that age, such as 'alternative' athletics and playing with my dog. I can't imagine being teen-aged and wanting to go to a night club in downtown Fresno.

Still, I wonder how something like this would do in a more centrally located spot. If it wasn't dirty downtown grunge, would it not be 'cool' enough for teens then?

As a promoter, I stopped my attempts at doing all-age shows long ago, mainly because kids would complain about the lack of all age shows, then never come out to support them when they did happen. Lack of support translates to NO money at the door, meaning, I pay the band, security, etc. out of my own pocket.

The other issue is HOW to get the info to kids that something WAS indeed happening. Something like the above mentioned club might have been perfect.

-s

I must have been a junior in high school. They had some really kick-ass ska shows there. I remember seeing Buck O' Nine and Voodoo Glow Skulls and the whole dance floor was rockin' and because we were on the second floor it felt like the whole thing was going to collapse in on us. But in a good way. Not a scary way. Great place, yes!

The club was called Patterson Hall which was in the T.W. Patterson Building on the Fulton Mall.
I don't know the exact year but it was on the second floor and had live music. The second floor was also open to artists. I had not moved back to Fresno yet so I don't know anything else about it except for what Craig stated.

So where is it then? And were the investors really THAT surprised that teens with tattoos and piercings were hanging out? Seems obvious to me that setting up something like this in that location would attract that crowd, and a whole lot more...

-s

I remember Craig Scharton talking during the Fulton Mall tour and talk he gave last Spring that he had helped investors set up a successful teen only nightclub on the mall. The teens were required to stay in the club once admitted ( so no wandering around the mall) until closing time which was midnight where their parents would pull up in the car and pick them up. The teens were more supervised, secured and the cost to get in covered the security, rent, bands etc. Craig stated it was successful and it was only the investors being less then happy about kids with tattoos and piercings hanging around their club that led to it being close.
That it was successful and profitable it seems like it is time for another go at this type of club.

This whole thing angers me immensely.

I realize that Fresno is a horrible place run by horrible people, but good lord.

Kids need a nice, safe, LEGAL place to spend time where they have something better to do than use drugs or stare at the TV or "discover" each other.

Some of my fondest memories, growing up in Monterey, involve hanging out at the Del Monte Shopping Center with maybe five dollars a day to spend until my folks showed up, often well after dark, in summer. The alternative would have been to just stay home all day and rot in front of the TV three months out of the year.

If there's a problem with kids causing trouble, the police should put a few more people out there.

If this is JUST about money, hell, charge a toll for entry or something. Be honest about it.

But in the long run, I can't see anything good about making restless kids MORE restless, and making them feel like their society only wants them for their wallets, regardless of the truth of the matter.

No wonder people are so quick to flee the area when they manage to get enough education to do so.

sorry to laugh out loud, but my thought is this: poor poor RiverPark! there is actually a glitch in the almighty North end?
yes, im bitter. my friends and i call RiverPark Disneyland. and how fitting! i am not a fan of North Fresno. you will rarely find me there. i dont know, something about the air of superiority i dont like. to hear this problem makes me laugh then think. it was just a few years back when Clovis was making a bid on a Skate park. if we build it, kids will come. and they did, kids ages 5 to 12 that is. and now heres the age old problem, loitering teens with nothing to do, no place to go, and no money to spend. makes you wonder what Al Delvecchio did on Happy Days when Fonzie spent all his time dancing with chicks and holding conferences in the mens room. i never saw him buy one burger yet the joint managed to thrive. shut up River park. deal with it! my god, there are worse things that could happen. imagine no one there! imagine no one buying your preciously overpriced wares. imagine drying up and dying away one day because you wanted to much and gave too little.
let the teens be teens. at least they are in view and not hiding under your cars stealing gas....or worse yet hiding behind masks taking all the money in your till.
give the kids a break and a safe place to be.

I am from Las Vegas, my roommate is from San Diego. I'm sorry to say but there was nothing to do for us when we were 15 and in our respective cities either. That was 12 years ago but I doubt it's much different now.

I spent a couple Friday evenings in the Riverpark area, and it looked like high school lunch hour, A thousand kids, standing around, and doing nothing. I personally have no problem with that, It was fun having a couple drinks at World Sports and make jokes about them. Unfortunately, it is not my decision to make, nor is it the kids' the Owners and tenants have that right.

Ironically the boycott of the kids to the center will probably make sales increase.

Fresno doesn't hold the monopoly on nothing to do. If you are 15 years old, most of the world is off limits in city life. Ranch kids have it the best since they have space to explore. Cities and kids just don't mix well.

Riverpark didn't get where it is by being stupid business people. They know what is best for their bottom line.

The huge, vast majority of kids in Fresburg find other things to do than stand around feeling bad about not having enough money to buy even more stuff they don't need.

1. 'Riverpark,' is a mid to high end shopping mall.
That means 'a retail establishment,'
That means 'a place of buying.'
---it's a business.

The business of Riverpark is sales and retail. (They make no qualms about that, and there is no foul in their looking to build a good business/buying-selling environment.)

That it has a name that has 'park,' in it?
Get ready for dissapointment if you need names to really reflect the events that they are affixed to.
(Fashion Fair is really gonna piss you off, I see very little fashion, and they've not had a fair there yet...)

2. Fresno Teens having nothing to do...
Unless one of the goals and business responsibilites of RiverPark is to provide teen care? It's not at fault.

-hmm, and okay, what I find kind of ironic?

-Unless they're getting bussed in from 'poorer-bad-sections of Fresno,'
--and it's 'those sections of town,' coming up to raid the mall like a bunch of 'pimple-faced lower income vikings???'

These are mid to upper-mid to lower-wealthy kids hanging out and getting into trouble...
(What? Rich kids having issues??? I thought that was only for the kids from the scarey part of town...)
--So these kids come from families that actually have SOME money and can afford to find something to do... (huh...)
(Pssst, --that section of N.E. Fresburg??? is also usually sold heavilly as being 'clovis schools,' too...)
WHAT?

Either way, both groups of kids need attention and activities.
Who's job is it to take care of these kids?
I'm guessing the people who made them to begin with?

And 'finding something to do,' actually means 'FINDING,' (it's not going to just drop out of the sky...)

This would be something where the parents are clearly just letting the kids 'go out and do whatever,' -so long as it's at 'the mall.'

3. ---The restrictions, (if looked at unbiasedly,) are geared NOT towards 'banning kids,'
---it's towards encouraging: 'kids to have parents with them.'
(and these are during hours where parents are more likely to be around,
-and should be able to keep a better eye on their kids... (unless they're employed second shift at a factory somewhere... ---which I don't think is the case...)

This ruling is actually quite lenient and appears to be trying to work with the kids and their families.
'...we want you here, we want your kids here, just be here together, that's all we ask..'

-But it's being played off as:
'They're grunching on the kids, and it's unfair... we're protesting,' (...dude, how Fresno.)

4. I want to know where the 'social,' groups are in this...

-like Churches or something?

-Are there actual groups where there can be adult supervision around, and kids actually have stuff to go and do?
-In a town with this many ('non,' and definitely 'religious') groups (some with memberships in the thousands,)

-where are they in providing something?

It doesn't even have to be religious...

-How 'bout them 'progressive,' 'non-religious,' types banding together and saying:
'...we need to keep our kids out of trouble, out of jail, away from drugs and bad things, and fer-GODSSAKES, away from church youthgroups...
-we gotta round them up and go do ___________, if only to go out and do something cool and talk up agnosticism or atheism or something...'
(...don't the Druids have a waterpark or something???
Some sort of Nihlist Science camp?
'...careful on the zip line, there, little Johnnie, cause if you fall off, that's it, eternal darkness and nothingness forever,,, you don't even get to come back as a sea sponge...'

Instead it's '...drop them off at the mall and get them out of our hair.'

I mean, granted, kids WANT to go to the mall, because their friends are there, there's a lot of action and stuff happening with older kids,
(like the kids in their 30's still cruising their hotrods and bikes up and down Blackstone for like, hours and hours,,,)

-But if you present something actualy 'cool,' for a kid to do, they'll go with it,
(sometimes even if it's not 'all that cool,'
-just because you think it is, and you're doing it with them...)
-Yes, sports fans, you can actually show a kid something different to do that's cool, convince them that it is,
--and voila, they're doing something creative and constructive -and staying out of trouble...)

truthfully some of the teenage antics that occurs there is quite annoying and can spoils ones night out. That is why i go to criterion for my movie experience now.

But these youthful teenagers do need an outlet of some sort. River Park should have looked more like a park instead of a parking lot.

In fact, I think I wrote on this in the other post...

-but the whole string is now gone?
(dunno... seems odd.)

In the other posting about it, the information stated that there were perameters to the curfew.

-Thursday through Sunday, after specific hours, right?
-And only a couple of months left? (until kids are back in school?)

(As stated in the prev. posts,)
I'm in Riverpark all the time as a contractor in two of the more popular stores...
-There IS a problem with underraged kids hanging out and not behaving properly.

-Fresno is also a massive 'gang,' town, and there is a huge problem among people of this age group with underage tobacco, drug, and alch. abuse. (This town also has a huge problem with 'self-inflictive,' 'self-abusive,' behaviors in this age group as well.)

-Sorry, but there it is.

From what I've seen, the behavior of the kids who are dropped off 'en-masse,' by the parents warrants the curfew,

-Which is basically the malls way of asking parents or guardians to actually BE parents or guardians of their kids,
--(and not, have the mall, and mall employees be babysitters...)

MOST stores in this area (and I live by a major Highschool and two large Jr. Highs (if not three,) have signs in the window that 'only two unnattended minors' are allowed in the store at a time.

(-And I don't think it's because the kids were mobbing the stores and buying so much stuff that the cashier's were unable to keep up.

-In fact, the newest and hottest group of 'consumers,' that a lot of marketing (Even Credit Cards, Cosmetics, clothing, and High-End electronics,) is geared towards are this demographic of people...

-So, why would the stores be looking to sell (and market,) towards these people,
-and simultaniously look to turn them away, therefore cutting their profits?

-unless they (the target group,)
-were causing more damage than profit?
'Shrinkage,' (petty in store theft-shoplifting,) is a factored in problem in any retail store, and most stores stomach it to a degree.
-For there to be such rule enforcement means that the problem has also exceeded 'acceptable' levels.

The 'kids,' my age (40's and 30's) needed to grow up and raise their kids properly, -and be responsible for their kids...

That they failed to do so?
That the kids are just hanging out and using a retail space as a playground,
And that their kids are now missbehaving in groups publically?
-has brought this on.

The businesses have a right to take responsibility for their shopping environments -and are doing so.

Too bad others have not taken personal responsibility up to this point.

Realistically, I would bet that less than 10% of the under sixteen year old crowd are buying anything anyway, and that ones that pay for a movie, see the movie and then hang out an additional five hours not buying anything else.

Still, I think it's a STUPID rule: it's not like Fresno provides anything else for kids to do, aside from loitering…

-s

Good for them. I hope they repeal that stupid-ass rule.

What's with River Park making dumb decisions? First they squelch 60 percent of their parking spots for more stores and now this? Nobody's riding the bus to River Park, you know.