OrangeBear--your posts were pulled because no responsible blog would allow itself to be sued for libel. Why don't you take your tales to Fresno Diocese Watch--or are you already one of their members?
Jon: Actually, the Fresno State bowling alley is more or less like that, though the food is a bit more like a gas station's choices. But there are Frito Boats, hot dogs, and various sugary drinks and snacks. And a few not-entirely-unhealthy things. It also has an arcade, pool tables, and so on. And it's usually full of relatively young sorts.
So. It's actually a very good idea, and has a history of working.
(considering the relationship of Valley is fer Lovers and Theraminman?
I'm like, having a total 'Kung-Fu,' moment, only this time it's grasshopper coming back on a lunch break and cuttin' one of the older monks in on like, a gameboy or something...
Funny you two are on the threads this evening...
I Met another Kingsburg-ite tonight out at Madera Speedway (Lance Jackson,) he drives the number 18 360 supermod, (really really nice fella, he was out on the track, his missus and their boy were sitting up there by me in the stands... next thing ya know we're all talking and I asked him if he was local...
-Kingsburg boy, actually...
---had a chance to prop Trike Shope and the Beatles thing...
(when it came to 'TVifL' ---I just told him that we had this crazy blonde girl who was turning Fresburg on it's head and probably going to be running the place in a year or two...)
He was like: '...right on, cool, cool...'
-We also determined that a basset hound has near as much torque as SuperMod, --but weren't as fast... (and you don't have to wear a firesuit to walk a bassett hound, either, ---unless it's been eating jalapeno peppers...
Would stand for the infamous Dance Dance Revolution. You might recognize it at an arcade or a college campus near you! (Yes, sadly enough, it was a hit at Cal Poly for all of those engineers who had enough studying statics at 2am and just had to get some energy out...)
Anyhow. It's the game where you stand on this platform and look at a screen and it tells you where to put your feet in a pattern to a song, so you are dancing. It's similar to Guitar Hero, but with dancing instead of playing guitar, if you are familiar with that game. Everyone loves it, whether you are the one with enough guts to get on the silly machine and dance or if you are like me and just love to laugh hilariously while watching people attempt to be the next Michael Jackson or Britney Spears (before they became the crazy people they are today).
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think I would have known about Dance Dance Revolution, except that 1) I was friends with many of those crazy engineers, and 2) I was involved with an organization which did DDR tournaments.
Submitted by thereminman on Sat, 08/04/2007 - 21:37
Open UP that business, sir!
I remember as an 'under 21'er' all we had was ...what?
Blackbeards? and peering through the window slats at The Wild Blue.
.......but ddr?
Deutche Demokraticshe Republik....in Riverpark?
but to show how in?/OUT of the loop *I" am, I had to GOOGLE 'DDR'
to find out what you were talking about----and I was !googleSMACKED! to find out it took freakin' PAGE THREE before I saw anything on East Germany. And don't go pretending for one minute that Ronald'communicator'Raygun had much at ALL to do with THAT wall coming down. It was the youth of that country. They took a 'vacation'...and when they were about to cross into Austria (to his credit) Gorbachev did NOT send in the tanks---unfortunately the Chinese were'nt so humane in Tiananmen Square ---but at least they make our lead-filled toys nice and cheap.
Ok, was this Global Politics for 200? or was it just RiverParkDrama for 20?......
Seriously,the above poster had a point.....
(But what does DDR mean to you?)( I think I've calmed down now)
Submitted by Jonreadsbooks on Sat, 08/04/2007 - 19:23
If anyone were smart, they'd open a shitty booze free kid "pub" in north fresno (not downtown, keep it close to home) that caters to mindless adolescence, their shitty "scene" bands, is tech-savvy (wifi, myspace acct, etc) and served a crap-tackular fair of food like pizza by the slice, frito boats, nachos and maybe some vegan choices because kids are kinda hip these days. Instead of harrassing kids with curfews a la "The RP", or physically (as maybe is the disputed case according to some bored lady on MindHub) why not give them a place to hang just for them and rape their $80LouisVuitton billfolds Grandma gave them for christmas. DUH. Throw in some kitsch like old photobooths and vintage arcade games (maybe a DDR for a good laugh) and you've got a goldmine. Make it even so they have to have a membership just to score some more of their parents money. It'd even be funny if there were a "Wall of Shame" where parents could submit the shitty report cards of their teens to have them banned until the grades rose. HAHA. If I weren't busy being a really poor art student i could make a killing. Someone give me a loan.
(I know you were talking with Ed, but I couldn't help overhear, on account that you're posting not a private message, -but an addition to a string.)
-That cross pollination?
-For the record?
That was you trashing out someone who was posting their opinions, which were based upon their own observations and discussions with people who are involved with the riverpark situation, professionally.
---So there's your 'cross-pollination problem,'
---your own hypocritical actions...
(sorry bud, we know how to read too.)
And the 'Reedley football player thing?'
Perhaps an issue that has died,
-but the point I made
(along with my writing on the Riverpark Safety issue, which was not 'heresay,' but eyewitness account?)(that you discount as 'rumor,')
-Was that your paper published the name of at least one minor, who was in foster care:
'Name, Age, Facility she was residing at,'
there was a second girl, also underaged, but I don't know if you published that kids name as well...
-In NY, NJ, Pa. or Conn.
(...you know, the cold cruel uncivilized section of the country??)
---That a kid is in the foster care system is protected by their patient privacy, (in most cases,) You don't dare print info like that, BECAUSE they're a minor, -and most papers won't touch it (if only out of ethical concerns,
(THEN) there are always lawyers who don't mind defending the kid, the facility, and the parents in such a circumstance...
My gut (with the Reedley thing? ) this kid was truly defenceless, so you guys displayed her like centerpiece.)
-Not a lot of class shown there, chum, (particularly in light of the fact that she'd just been gang-raped or somethin?)
--Also:
why I'd advise any person who was involved in a crime to Not call a Reporter until that little heiarchy I pointed out had been gone through first.
I don't want to call you a pack of vultures looking for gore to spin till the cows come home,
--but you're not going to sell papers telling the world
'How nice it is outside, -and how nothing bad happened, right? RIGHT?'
-Yeah, thanks for keepin' it real with the rest of us for a minute there...
I see you really having one actual option,
And if you do this right?
You may just come up smelling like a rose.
(Ready?)
-First you're gonna have to go out and really do some fieldwork on this.
(Bring a team, what the hell, you guys are pushing this thing like it's the presidential election anyway...)
-Not just Riverpark,
-but
Manchester,
Fashion Fare,
Downtown,
Sierra,
you name it.
-then maybe start in on places where kids hang out, (skating rinks, arcades, whatever... you'll find places...)
-and you're going to have to go in without anybody knowing you're there,
observe what happens,
take a bunch of notes,
---then talk to the cops,
---then mall management,
---and then (ready? here's the hattrick...)
talk with some Social Workers and Adolescent Therapists,
and Medical Social Workers at the emergency rooms...
---Even with complete honesty?
You WILL get skewed data,
(...because it's going to be the poorer kids and rougher neighborhoods that are going to be most on that map, (If you can get them to actually go and get help, but they don't trust the system much...),
(These are not the undocumented kids, they're almost always TOO SCARED to get help,
It's gonna be the poorer to lower mid-class ones...)
(Hmmmm, There's your second story once this one is done...)
---But credible interviews with a good child psych. and counsellor, in the area who helps out kids who have been abused in this way, will be a great benefit for you, (They see both poor and rich kids,
and will reveal that it happens across all social demographics, (whups, looks like Gods Country has issues too... Third Story in the making...)
Then?
You pull one HELL of a 'mea culpa,'
(don't sweat it,
you're press,
you talk for a living,,,,
you're not supposed to get EVERYTHING right,
just get people's attention,
---So NOW, you're gonna be gettin to the bottom of it...)
-And you say something like:
'...Whereas I initially was seriously questioning some posting on MindHub that was speaking of under-aged sex happening,
and the questionable nature of safety in the mall,
I decided to investigate the situaiton at ALL of the area malls, in the name of public safety,
-and this is what I found:'
-And then you tell it like it is.
(And then you apologize your ass off to Mrs. DeRaud,
maybe spring a dinner on her and the Mr. so that she knows you aren't just bullshitting, (I'm sure the Bee has passes to someplace decent,)
--and you publically thank her for
'alerting you to something, and reminding you to care,,, blah-blah...'
-Flowers would also be a nice touch.
I PROMISE that there's going to be a serious story there,
-and the only real enemy to the 'truth,' getting out will be 'management,' of a mall, (as they want to preserve their image with the public,)
---but if they're smart?
-they'll realize that they have YOU and the rest of the goon squad 'snoopin' around,'
-and they'll roll over like the Public Relations Dogs that they are, and show how they are trying to keep kids safe too...
Boom,
done,
-Everybody wins.
you go from:
'Putz who Smears Mom's on Fresno Famous,'
---to
'Prince who cares about Teens AND Stores, and won't put up with anything but the facts...'
---(who just did some quality journalism...)
THAT's got legs.
If your editor doesn't let you work that story?,
They're an idiot,
---as this 'curfew -the kids are misbehaving,'thing
will only go SO far,
and you've been kicking it so much to death,
the ONLY way you're gonna get it to move and talk anymore is to stick an arm up somplace VERY unpleasant and make a sockpuppet out of it.
Folks are gonna wanna read about it because
'back to school,'
and
'holiday shopping,'
season
is right around the corner...
THAT's your shot.
Otherwise you're going to come across as some
(obviously,) biased 'reporter,'
who (not so gracefully,) euthanized the Fulton Mall, (kind of like how they electrocuted Jumbo...)
-Then refuses to tolerate all perspectives
(and true experiences,)
of the beloved 'new mall,' up in 'God's Country...'
Which leads to other questions...
Like:
'...Is the paper there to really tell the news and inform people about what is going on, (or is not?,) by journalism?
Or is it some pack of lap-dogs who are
'not allowed to talk about potentially dangerous situations,' (because the place of those situations pays TONS to said paper in advertising fees...?)
-There's your Fourth Story, Danno,
(you'd best grab these too, before Undercurrent smells 'em in the water, ..careful, they're small but they bite hard and in the dardest places, 'n they've not had all their shots, either...)
There's your bat:
-maybe you can swat one out of the park before Mr. Bonds does.
There's much cross-pollination of MindHub silliness over here at Fresno Famous. Hence my red flagging of the River Park rumors. Frankly, the rumors shouldn't have been aired on MindHub. They're better discussed and confirmed with the duely constituted authorities--in private. Not posted on the Internet where they could create undue panic.
On the Reedley football players "having sex with that girl" saga--that case has died. Also points out the sort of problems a police chief with a podium permanently chained around his neck can create.
in my opinion, it seemed unnecessary to mention claims made by someone else on mindhub here. not that we can't talk about what's going on somewhere else in the media, heck, i do that all the time. but, to me, it felt like the comment was tacked on, unnecessary to what you'd already said.
as for whether or not it should have been mentioned on mindhub, well, maybe it shouldn't have. but that doesn't explain why it was brought up here either. it felt like, "hey, there's some person over on mindhub telling urban legends, what a moron." (totally my interpretation of what you said.)
finally, to the veracity of the claim: i don't doubt it at all that there are sexual predators hanging out at riverpark. basic sociology tells us that motivated offenders go where there are suitable targets (how's that for a paraphrase of the concept of the routine activities theory?) and, i wouldn't be surprised to think that one or more have re-offended while doing so. this doesn't mean that every one them has, and it's not evidence of the claim. it is conjecture. but, even third hand accounts can be true. and, first hand accounts can be inaccurate.
Here? Dan W. (is this Dan Waterhouse to whom I'm speaking?)
-smears a woman's written concerns and (her own,) investigation 'and is concerned that she is smearing and stirring up rumors.'
-Doing the very SAME thing (if this is the same person,)
that he accuses the woman of doing,
(-by insinuating that their 'not knowing exactly what sort of AirBase LeMoore is: -goes as some sort of proof or further proof that they don't know what is going on at Riverpark...')
--I'd hope a 'journalist,' of any calibre wouldn't stoop to such juvenile methods, (having decried them to begin with.)
The reasons for 'not posting first hand accounts on Fresno Famous?
Only that, (shocking as it may seem,) retelling of one's own abuses at the hands of sexual offenders is not really best served when it becomes the fodder for a public message board.
(I'm sorry, but I'm coming from the perspective of seeing people recover from their trauma, -not using the experience to sell periodicals...)
-But people have a right to do what they wish.
The initial entries by myself and others was all about the (bizarre and overblown,) MISS-argument where Riverpark was being depicted as 'ogre,' for wanting people to simply be responsible for their kids, (which they were responsible for (as parents, legally,) --and which Riverpark could not be responsible for...
---That being blown up as some big 'oppression,' issue? Ludacris.
The real issue that I saw in this?
While everybody was arguing about 'the rights of children to be at a mall, and boycotting a business for calling responsibility to the table...'
-the Behaviors that I've observed (yes, observed, as a witness,) told me that it was not the best place to just 'drop off your kids,' and let them roam free for hours and hours,
-because of the very subjects that (your own paper? If this is Dan Waterhouse?) reports on: (Gangs, Theft, Child Abuse, Predatory behavior,) --etc. etc., when ever it comes up anywhere in the land.
Introducing fact and concern to any venue is rarely a bad thing.
(And that was simply what myself and other readers who do not see Riverpark as a safe playground are trying to convey.)
There is no slander nor smear in that.
Your method of reacting to those comments?
-Not seen as the best, and (regrettably,) nor consistant.
-As you seem to be quite intent on passing off someone's accounts (and discussion with credible sources,) as 'heresay,'
---again discrediting them becasue they don't know which branch is at an airbase...)
-And truthfully?
You don't seem to be too interested in getting to the bottom of the issue, as:
1. -you ask people who likely are (not,) going to talk about their abuse -to do so on a message board,
(showing little to no real understanding about the emotional/mental construct of those who have been victimized in this sort of situation... They usually don't talk about it...)
and
2. -Instead of actually going out yourself, (or as a team,) and watching what goes down in Riverpark during these hours, (or in the other malls during these hours,) over a period of time?
-you simply present your opinion and then attempt to neutralize (with outside non-pertainant points,) other writer's comments.
--Really, you should do some of your own data collecting,(significant data collecting,) -and then write something... (I'd read it.)
(Please tell me you are doing this as some sort of undercover thing, and going to actually report on it?)
Seriously, sir, I have to imagine that you've not been on top of your game with this,
(and no doubt been schooled by others and how many other stories and issues where you've done better?)
Also:
MindHub would appear to be a place for the creative professionals (etc.) of the town to discuss pertainant social issues, (across the spectrum,) in hopes of finding the best ways to go about building this place, -and rectifying it's concerns.
-The 'Riverpark Curfew Issue' has been on the front grille of more minds in this town (mostly the missunderstanding of it, -but still,) --and ALL sides really should be heard and considered...
-Besides, somebody from your paper declared Downtown Dead, ('...put a fork in it,' etc.)
(...So we can't ride that hobbyhorse anymore, (...cause someone official found no pulse and called the time of expiration and threw a sheet over it...)
We're now NOT allowed to discuss the issues (that the media insists on breathing new spin and speculation into each day???)
Really?
How cavalier, now only 'certain perspectives' are permitted to kick this horse.
Bottom line:
The internet is NOT the place for some kid who has been taken advantage of in the parking lot of a mall,
(any mall,)
---and, unless you've got the clinical training, or are a family member who can get this young person help to recover from the violation,
I doubt you'd be the correct choice to hear their experiences, either.
-I'm still sticking with the communication trail of:
1.) parents
2.) police
3.) Physicians/Therapists,
4.) Other parents who have kids at risk in the situations
5.) Attorneys
5.) Mall Management
Seriously, do you have kids?
Do you have nieces or nephews?
How 'bout neighbors?
Anybody of 'the age range discussed,' in your life that you give two cents about that:
-If they got taken advantage of by (anyone,) in a public or private setting,
You'd say to them
'...listen, honey, I want you to go write about it on a public message board and then call a newspaper reporter..'
(-I mean, you may (sincerely,) be a valiant and upstanding guy, (I don't know you from a pile of bricks, -nor you me,) -but you've seriously missjudged your surroundings if you'd direct anyone who's been through any type of abuse or attack to do such a thing.)
-Trust me on this one, Danno...
the press will get their mits on the situation somewhere in that heirarchy, and it all will wind up on the front page somewhere...
it always does.
(I'm still gape-mouthed at the mention of the minors who were sexuall abused in the whole 'Football Player,' thing not too long ago, how the paper got away with THAT? (I dunno, if only on ethical grounds?,) is beyond me.)
But as for the best care of people invovled and injured in this?
The press have never entered my mind,
-nor do I suspect that they will anytime soon, sorry.
(And if you are a reporter? You are the press, and if you are the press? You will have to do your own job, -and that is far different, in goal, (sell newspapers,) than anything I have on my horizon at this time, (best care of the hearts, minds, and bodies of anybody, -including journalists.)
Though I am all for the freedom of speech?
(And see a definite place in the world for cathartic writing about one's past experiences?)
I would hope that anyone with 'first hand knowledge,' of sex with a minor, (be it by being either party of the situation,)
-or (possible alternate definition,) someone who observed such a thing, and has proof (and is eyewitness?)
That the person would first contact the authorities, then seek professional help, (asap,) so as to recover from such a thing with as much dignity preserved / restored as possible.
Posting about it on 'Fresno Famous,'
(if someone has been involved in such a thing,)
is just not a wise idea, and only adds to prurient sensationlism.
Please:
if such a thing has happened to you, get proper help, (and report the issue to the authorities so that it could be stopped.)
Privacey, dignity, and proper care of such a situation is not synonymous with 'message board.'
Well, it seems Chief Dyer doesn't want to touch this deal with a 10-foot pole right now. And, I don't blame him. The City learned a painful lesson over at Fashion Fair several years ago about doing the bidding of mall owners and violating State law--cost the taxpayers a bundle.
So, River Park wants the real cops to come out and deal with the kids whose parents tell the renta-cops to f--k off. The City Attorney has told the Chief he'll probably run afoul of the "Pruneyard" case which established the concept of shopping mall as public square. Any citizen's arrests are thus unlawful and if the PD accepts any kid arrested for curfew from the renta-cops, the City's on the hook legally--and that could be expensive. Some of these kids have well-heeled 'rents who would sue the pants off the mall and the City of Fresno.
The other option, if Fresno PD won't respond--and the chief says right now they won't--is for the mall to call Child Protective Services. The Board of Supes just gutted their budget, and some kid violating some privately imposed curfew is not a life-threatening emergency. CPS won't respond either. Sooooo, the mall is stuck with holding onto the kids.
This was a really stupid idea.
On a related note, some woman is posting rumors on MindHub about predators haunting River Park having sex with 13 year old girls. I'm dubious about her claims, given the thrice-removed nature of the original source--someone from the "legal community." This source couldn't get it straight that Lemoore Naval Air Station is not an Air Force base. If anyone has first-hand knowledge of such activity, it might be good to share it here.
Oh, yes. The great Fresno cultural event of 2001 is coming to an end. Krispy Kreme is closing its Fresno store in August.
While I am, personally, quite distant from my teenage years, and not really much a fan of modern youth culture (one of the little buggers put a $3K dent in my car, recently, but that was at a house party, not a mall), I'm not one to be a hypocrite. Such a curfew would have taken what little healthy joy I had in some of my younger days, so I cannot conscientiously take it away from them. I will, thus, and henceforth, be doing what I can to boycott Riverpark until this has been ended. Unfortunate, as it's my favorite place in the city, teenagers despite.
That said, the idea of an 18+ retail community, planned from the ground up, is intriguing, and if an area was developed specifically with that in mind, with specifically adult-oriented vendors (and I'm not talking porn here, but smoke shops, wineries, night clubs, car rentals, geriatric shops, and general "I'm old now" snobbery), I wouldn't mind it, though I'd still prefer to BORE kids away than FORCE them away if possible.
It just feels like a particularly rude form of needless censorship.
Can't we just get more cops, instead? Then we don't have to worry about the 18+ gangsters either.
Here is an editorial posted to the Fresno Bee by a friend of mine:
Extend the curfew
07/25/07 05:06:12
Who can blame the deciders at River Park for banning teenagers from their establishments after 6 p.m.? As a high school teacher, I know all too well how irritating teenagers can be. Nothing interferes with the pleasant atmosphere and efficient operation of my school more than having so many of those energetic, boisterous, disrespectful, rebellious youth running loose through our halls and classrooms.
I, therefore, suggest a curfew for our schools. No teenager should be allowed on the school grounds after 12 noon. Oh, the work I could get done! Parents, have no fear. From noon until 6 p.m., your teens can all hang out safely at River Park.
Of course the cerfew does not apply to Edwards. We all like to pick and choose and skim the easy money off of the top. If the kids would simply stop going to RiverPark every day and every hour, don't you think The powers that be at Edwards would make sure the cerfew policy got changed.
The power is with the people. Kids sand up for what you want, Don't let them take your money with out getting what you want.
OrangeBear--LOL
OrangeBear--your posts were pulled because no responsible blog would allow itself to be sued for libel. Why don't you take your tales to Fresno Diocese Watch--or are you already one of their members?
Jon: It's Half There
Jon: Actually, the Fresno State bowling alley is more or less like that, though the food is a bit more like a gas station's choices. But there are Frito Boats, hot dogs, and various sugary drinks and snacks. And a few not-entirely-unhealthy things. It also has an arcade, pool tables, and so on. And it's usually full of relatively young sorts.
So. It's actually a very good idea, and has a history of working.
hmmmmmm,
(considering the relationship of Valley is fer Lovers and Theraminman?
I'm like, having a total 'Kung-Fu,' moment, only this time it's grasshopper coming back on a lunch break and cuttin' one of the older monks in on like, a gameboy or something...
Funny you two are on the threads this evening...
I Met another Kingsburg-ite tonight out at Madera Speedway (Lance Jackson,) he drives the number 18 360 supermod, (really really nice fella, he was out on the track, his missus and their boy were sitting up there by me in the stands... next thing ya know we're all talking and I asked him if he was local...
-Kingsburg boy, actually...
---had a chance to prop Trike Shope and the Beatles thing...
(when it came to 'TVifL' ---I just told him that we had this crazy blonde girl who was turning Fresburg on it's head and probably going to be running the place in a year or two...)
He was like: '...right on, cool, cool...'
-We also determined that a basset hound has near as much torque as SuperMod, --but weren't as fast... (and you don't have to wear a firesuit to walk a bassett hound, either, ---unless it's been eating jalapeno peppers...
DDR...
Would stand for the infamous Dance Dance Revolution. You might recognize it at an arcade or a college campus near you! (Yes, sadly enough, it was a hit at Cal Poly for all of those engineers who had enough studying statics at 2am and just had to get some energy out...)
Anyhow. It's the game where you stand on this platform and look at a screen and it tells you where to put your feet in a pattern to a song, so you are dancing. It's similar to Guitar Hero, but with dancing instead of playing guitar, if you are familiar with that game. Everyone loves it, whether you are the one with enough guts to get on the silly machine and dance or if you are like me and just love to laugh hilariously while watching people attempt to be the next Michael Jackson or Britney Spears (before they became the crazy people they are today).
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think I would have known about Dance Dance Revolution, except that 1) I was friends with many of those crazy engineers, and 2) I was involved with an organization which did DDR tournaments.
Open UP that business (the DDR vs. Ronald 'communicator" Raygun)
Open UP that business, sir!
I remember as an 'under 21'er' all we had was ...what?
Blackbeards? and peering through the window slats at The Wild Blue.
.......but ddr?
Deutche Demokraticshe Republik....in Riverpark?
but to show how in?/OUT of the loop *I" am, I had to GOOGLE 'DDR'
to find out what you were talking about----and I was !googleSMACKED! to find out it took freakin' PAGE THREE before I saw anything on East Germany. And don't go pretending for one minute that Ronald'communicator'Raygun had much at ALL to do with THAT wall coming down. It was the youth of that country. They took a 'vacation'...and when they were about to cross into Austria (to his credit) Gorbachev did NOT send in the tanks---unfortunately the Chinese were'nt so humane in Tiananmen Square ---but at least they make our lead-filled toys nice and cheap.
Ok, was this Global Politics for 200? or was it just RiverParkDrama for 20?......
Seriously,the above poster had a point.....
(But what does DDR mean to you?)( I think I've calmed down now)
dumb.
If anyone were smart, they'd open a shitty booze free kid "pub" in north fresno (not downtown, keep it close to home) that caters to mindless adolescence, their shitty "scene" bands, is tech-savvy (wifi, myspace acct, etc) and served a crap-tackular fair of food like pizza by the slice, frito boats, nachos and maybe some vegan choices because kids are kinda hip these days. Instead of harrassing kids with curfews a la "The RP", or physically (as maybe is the disputed case according to some bored lady on MindHub) why not give them a place to hang just for them and rape their $80LouisVuitton billfolds Grandma gave them for christmas. DUH. Throw in some kitsch like old photobooths and vintage arcade games (maybe a DDR for a good laugh) and you've got a goldmine. Make it even so they have to have a membership just to score some more of their parents money. It'd even be funny if there were a "Wall of Shame" where parents could submit the shitty report cards of their teens to have them banned until the grades rose. HAHA. If I weren't busy being a really poor art student i could make a killing. Someone give me a loan.
(p.s. IntelProp copyright of me, sucka.)
But, But, Dan...
(I know you were talking with Ed, but I couldn't help overhear, on account that you're posting not a private message, -but an addition to a string.)
-That cross pollination?
-For the record?
That was you trashing out someone who was posting their opinions, which were based upon their own observations and discussions with people who are involved with the riverpark situation, professionally.
---So there's your 'cross-pollination problem,'
---your own hypocritical actions...
(sorry bud, we know how to read too.)
And the 'Reedley football player thing?'
Perhaps an issue that has died,
-but the point I made
(along with my writing on the Riverpark Safety issue, which was not 'heresay,' but eyewitness account?)(that you discount as 'rumor,')
-Was that your paper published the name of at least one minor, who was in foster care:
'Name, Age, Facility she was residing at,'
there was a second girl, also underaged, but I don't know if you published that kids name as well...
-In NY, NJ, Pa. or Conn.
(...you know, the cold cruel uncivilized section of the country??)
---That a kid is in the foster care system is protected by their patient privacy, (in most cases,) You don't dare print info like that, BECAUSE they're a minor, -and most papers won't touch it (if only out of ethical concerns,
(THEN) there are always lawyers who don't mind defending the kid, the facility, and the parents in such a circumstance...
My gut (with the Reedley thing? ) this kid was truly defenceless, so you guys displayed her like centerpiece.)
-Not a lot of class shown there, chum, (particularly in light of the fact that she'd just been gang-raped or somethin?)
--Also:
why I'd advise any person who was involved in a crime to Not call a Reporter until that little heiarchy I pointed out had been gone through first.
I don't want to call you a pack of vultures looking for gore to spin till the cows come home,
--but you're not going to sell papers telling the world
'How nice it is outside, -and how nothing bad happened, right? RIGHT?'
-Yeah, thanks for keepin' it real with the rest of us for a minute there...
I see you really having one actual option,
And if you do this right?
You may just come up smelling like a rose.
(Ready?)
-First you're gonna have to go out and really do some fieldwork on this.
(Bring a team, what the hell, you guys are pushing this thing like it's the presidential election anyway...)
-Not just Riverpark,
-but
Manchester,
Fashion Fare,
Downtown,
Sierra,
you name it.
-then maybe start in on places where kids hang out, (skating rinks, arcades, whatever... you'll find places...)
-and you're going to have to go in without anybody knowing you're there,
observe what happens,
take a bunch of notes,
---then talk to the cops,
---then mall management,
---and then (ready? here's the hattrick...)
talk with some Social Workers and Adolescent Therapists,
and Medical Social Workers at the emergency rooms...
---Even with complete honesty?
You WILL get skewed data,
(...because it's going to be the poorer kids and rougher neighborhoods that are going to be most on that map, (If you can get them to actually go and get help, but they don't trust the system much...),
(These are not the undocumented kids, they're almost always TOO SCARED to get help,
It's gonna be the poorer to lower mid-class ones...)
(Hmmmm, There's your second story once this one is done...)
---But credible interviews with a good child psych. and counsellor, in the area who helps out kids who have been abused in this way, will be a great benefit for you, (They see both poor and rich kids,
and will reveal that it happens across all social demographics, (whups, looks like Gods Country has issues too... Third Story in the making...)
Then?
You pull one HELL of a 'mea culpa,'
(don't sweat it,
you're press,
you talk for a living,,,,
you're not supposed to get EVERYTHING right,
just get people's attention,
---So NOW, you're gonna be gettin to the bottom of it...)
-And you say something like:
'...Whereas I initially was seriously questioning some posting on MindHub that was speaking of under-aged sex happening,
and the questionable nature of safety in the mall,
I decided to investigate the situaiton at ALL of the area malls, in the name of public safety,
-and this is what I found:'
-And then you tell it like it is.
(And then you apologize your ass off to Mrs. DeRaud,
maybe spring a dinner on her and the Mr. so that she knows you aren't just bullshitting, (I'm sure the Bee has passes to someplace decent,)
--and you publically thank her for
'alerting you to something, and reminding you to care,,, blah-blah...'
-Flowers would also be a nice touch.
I PROMISE that there's going to be a serious story there,
-and the only real enemy to the 'truth,' getting out will be 'management,' of a mall, (as they want to preserve their image with the public,)
---but if they're smart?
-they'll realize that they have YOU and the rest of the goon squad 'snoopin' around,'
-and they'll roll over like the Public Relations Dogs that they are, and show how they are trying to keep kids safe too...
Boom,
done,
-Everybody wins.
you go from:
'Putz who Smears Mom's on Fresno Famous,'
---to
'Prince who cares about Teens AND Stores, and won't put up with anything but the facts...'
---(who just did some quality journalism...)
THAT's got legs.
If your editor doesn't let you work that story?,
They're an idiot,
---as this 'curfew -the kids are misbehaving,'thing
will only go SO far,
and you've been kicking it so much to death,
the ONLY way you're gonna get it to move and talk anymore is to stick an arm up somplace VERY unpleasant and make a sockpuppet out of it.
Folks are gonna wanna read about it because
'back to school,'
and
'holiday shopping,'
season
is right around the corner...
THAT's your shot.
Otherwise you're going to come across as some
(obviously,) biased 'reporter,'
who (not so gracefully,) euthanized the Fulton Mall, (kind of like how they electrocuted Jumbo...)
-Then refuses to tolerate all perspectives
(and true experiences,)
of the beloved 'new mall,' up in 'God's Country...'
Which leads to other questions...
Like:
'...Is the paper there to really tell the news and inform people about what is going on, (or is not?,) by journalism?
Or is it some pack of lap-dogs who are
'not allowed to talk about potentially dangerous situations,' (because the place of those situations pays TONS to said paper in advertising fees...?)
-There's your Fourth Story, Danno,
(you'd best grab these too, before Undercurrent smells 'em in the water, ..careful, they're small but they bite hard and in the dardest places, 'n they've not had all their shots, either...)
There's your bat:
-maybe you can swat one out of the park before Mr. Bonds does.
Best of Luck.
-Eric
Ed....
There's much cross-pollination of MindHub silliness over here at Fresno Famous. Hence my red flagging of the River Park rumors. Frankly, the rumors shouldn't have been aired on MindHub. They're better discussed and confirmed with the duely constituted authorities--in private. Not posted on the Internet where they could create undue panic.
On the Reedley football players "having sex with that girl" saga--that case has died. Also points out the sort of problems a police chief with a podium permanently chained around his neck can create.
since we're sharing
in my opinion, it seemed unnecessary to mention claims made by someone else on mindhub here. not that we can't talk about what's going on somewhere else in the media, heck, i do that all the time. but, to me, it felt like the comment was tacked on, unnecessary to what you'd already said.
as for whether or not it should have been mentioned on mindhub, well, maybe it shouldn't have. but that doesn't explain why it was brought up here either. it felt like, "hey, there's some person over on mindhub telling urban legends, what a moron." (totally my interpretation of what you said.)
finally, to the veracity of the claim: i don't doubt it at all that there are sexual predators hanging out at riverpark. basic sociology tells us that motivated offenders go where there are suitable targets (how's that for a paraphrase of the concept of the routine activities theory?) and, i wouldn't be surprised to think that one or more have re-offended while doing so. this doesn't mean that every one them has, and it's not evidence of the claim. it is conjecture. but, even third hand accounts can be true. and, first hand accounts can be inaccurate.
Oh Dan...
Here? Dan W. (is this Dan Waterhouse to whom I'm speaking?)
-smears a woman's written concerns and (her own,) investigation 'and is concerned that she is smearing and stirring up rumors.'
-Doing the very SAME thing (if this is the same person,)
that he accuses the woman of doing,
(-by insinuating that their 'not knowing exactly what sort of AirBase LeMoore is: -goes as some sort of proof or further proof that they don't know what is going on at Riverpark...')
--I'd hope a 'journalist,' of any calibre wouldn't stoop to such juvenile methods, (having decried them to begin with.)
The reasons for 'not posting first hand accounts on Fresno Famous?
Only that, (shocking as it may seem,) retelling of one's own abuses at the hands of sexual offenders is not really best served when it becomes the fodder for a public message board.
(I'm sorry, but I'm coming from the perspective of seeing people recover from their trauma, -not using the experience to sell periodicals...)
-But people have a right to do what they wish.
The initial entries by myself and others was all about the (bizarre and overblown,) MISS-argument where Riverpark was being depicted as 'ogre,' for wanting people to simply be responsible for their kids, (which they were responsible for (as parents, legally,) --and which Riverpark could not be responsible for...
---That being blown up as some big 'oppression,' issue? Ludacris.
The real issue that I saw in this?
While everybody was arguing about 'the rights of children to be at a mall, and boycotting a business for calling responsibility to the table...'
-the Behaviors that I've observed (yes, observed, as a witness,) told me that it was not the best place to just 'drop off your kids,' and let them roam free for hours and hours,
-because of the very subjects that (your own paper? If this is Dan Waterhouse?) reports on: (Gangs, Theft, Child Abuse, Predatory behavior,) --etc. etc., when ever it comes up anywhere in the land.
Introducing fact and concern to any venue is rarely a bad thing.
(And that was simply what myself and other readers who do not see Riverpark as a safe playground are trying to convey.)
There is no slander nor smear in that.
Your method of reacting to those comments?
-Not seen as the best, and (regrettably,) nor consistant.
-As you seem to be quite intent on passing off someone's accounts (and discussion with credible sources,) as 'heresay,'
---again discrediting them becasue they don't know which branch is at an airbase...)
-And truthfully?
You don't seem to be too interested in getting to the bottom of the issue, as:
1. -you ask people who likely are (not,) going to talk about their abuse -to do so on a message board,
(showing little to no real understanding about the emotional/mental construct of those who have been victimized in this sort of situation... They usually don't talk about it...)
and
2. -Instead of actually going out yourself, (or as a team,) and watching what goes down in Riverpark during these hours, (or in the other malls during these hours,) over a period of time?
-you simply present your opinion and then attempt to neutralize (with outside non-pertainant points,) other writer's comments.
--Really, you should do some of your own data collecting,(significant data collecting,) -and then write something... (I'd read it.)
(Please tell me you are doing this as some sort of undercover thing, and going to actually report on it?)
Seriously, sir, I have to imagine that you've not been on top of your game with this,
(and no doubt been schooled by others and how many other stories and issues where you've done better?)
Also:
MindHub would appear to be a place for the creative professionals (etc.) of the town to discuss pertainant social issues, (across the spectrum,) in hopes of finding the best ways to go about building this place, -and rectifying it's concerns.
-The 'Riverpark Curfew Issue' has been on the front grille of more minds in this town (mostly the missunderstanding of it, -but still,) --and ALL sides really should be heard and considered...
-Besides, somebody from your paper declared Downtown Dead, ('...put a fork in it,' etc.)
(...So we can't ride that hobbyhorse anymore, (...cause someone official found no pulse and called the time of expiration and threw a sheet over it...)
We're now NOT allowed to discuss the issues (that the media insists on breathing new spin and speculation into each day???)
Really?
How cavalier, now only 'certain perspectives' are permitted to kick this horse.
Bottom line:
The internet is NOT the place for some kid who has been taken advantage of in the parking lot of a mall,
(any mall,)
---and, unless you've got the clinical training, or are a family member who can get this young person help to recover from the violation,
I doubt you'd be the correct choice to hear their experiences, either.
-I'm still sticking with the communication trail of:
1.) parents
2.) police
3.) Physicians/Therapists,
4.) Other parents who have kids at risk in the situations
5.) Attorneys
5.) Mall Management
Seriously, do you have kids?
Do you have nieces or nephews?
How 'bout neighbors?
Anybody of 'the age range discussed,' in your life that you give two cents about that:
-If they got taken advantage of by (anyone,) in a public or private setting,
You'd say to them
'...listen, honey, I want you to go write about it on a public message board and then call a newspaper reporter..'
(-I mean, you may (sincerely,) be a valiant and upstanding guy, (I don't know you from a pile of bricks, -nor you me,) -but you've seriously missjudged your surroundings if you'd direct anyone who's been through any type of abuse or attack to do such a thing.)
-Trust me on this one, Danno...
the press will get their mits on the situation somewhere in that heirarchy, and it all will wind up on the front page somewhere...
it always does.
(I'm still gape-mouthed at the mention of the minors who were sexuall abused in the whole 'Football Player,' thing not too long ago, how the paper got away with THAT? (I dunno, if only on ethical grounds?,) is beyond me.)
But as for the best care of people invovled and injured in this?
The press have never entered my mind,
-nor do I suspect that they will anytime soon, sorry.
(And if you are a reporter? You are the press, and if you are the press? You will have to do your own job, -and that is far different, in goal, (sell newspapers,) than anything I have on my horizon at this time, (best care of the hearts, minds, and bodies of anybody, -including journalists.)
Thanks for chiming in.
-Eric
Eric, if this shouldn't be posted here, then the subject shouldn't have been mentioned on MindHub.
Re: Rumors of Riverpark and men picking up underraged girls
Though I am all for the freedom of speech?
(And see a definite place in the world for cathartic writing about one's past experiences?)
I would hope that anyone with 'first hand knowledge,' of sex with a minor, (be it by being either party of the situation,)
-or (possible alternate definition,) someone who observed such a thing, and has proof (and is eyewitness?)
That the person would first contact the authorities, then seek professional help, (asap,) so as to recover from such a thing with as much dignity preserved / restored as possible.
Posting about it on 'Fresno Famous,'
(if someone has been involved in such a thing,)
is just not a wise idea, and only adds to prurient sensationlism.
Please:
if such a thing has happened to you, get proper help, (and report the issue to the authorities so that it could be stopped.)
Privacey, dignity, and proper care of such a situation is not synonymous with 'message board.'
-Eric Field
River Park
Well, it seems Chief Dyer doesn't want to touch this deal with a 10-foot pole right now. And, I don't blame him. The City learned a painful lesson over at Fashion Fair several years ago about doing the bidding of mall owners and violating State law--cost the taxpayers a bundle.
So, River Park wants the real cops to come out and deal with the kids whose parents tell the renta-cops to f--k off. The City Attorney has told the Chief he'll probably run afoul of the "Pruneyard" case which established the concept of shopping mall as public square. Any citizen's arrests are thus unlawful and if the PD accepts any kid arrested for curfew from the renta-cops, the City's on the hook legally--and that could be expensive. Some of these kids have well-heeled 'rents who would sue the pants off the mall and the City of Fresno.
The other option, if Fresno PD won't respond--and the chief says right now they won't--is for the mall to call Child Protective Services. The Board of Supes just gutted their budget, and some kid violating some privately imposed curfew is not a life-threatening emergency. CPS won't respond either. Sooooo, the mall is stuck with holding onto the kids.
This was a really stupid idea.
On a related note, some woman is posting rumors on MindHub about predators haunting River Park having sex with 13 year old girls. I'm dubious about her claims, given the thrice-removed nature of the original source--someone from the "legal community." This source couldn't get it straight that Lemoore Naval Air Station is not an Air Force base. If anyone has first-hand knowledge of such activity, it might be good to share it here.
Oh, yes. The great Fresno cultural event of 2001 is coming to an end. Krispy Kreme is closing its Fresno store in August.
My Little Part
Bravo to your friend, Andy.
While I am, personally, quite distant from my teenage years, and not really much a fan of modern youth culture (one of the little buggers put a $3K dent in my car, recently, but that was at a house party, not a mall), I'm not one to be a hypocrite. Such a curfew would have taken what little healthy joy I had in some of my younger days, so I cannot conscientiously take it away from them. I will, thus, and henceforth, be doing what I can to boycott Riverpark until this has been ended. Unfortunate, as it's my favorite place in the city, teenagers despite.
That said, the idea of an 18+ retail community, planned from the ground up, is intriguing, and if an area was developed specifically with that in mind, with specifically adult-oriented vendors (and I'm not talking porn here, but smoke shops, wineries, night clubs, car rentals, geriatric shops, and general "I'm old now" snobbery), I wouldn't mind it, though I'd still prefer to BORE kids away than FORCE them away if possible.
It just feels like a particularly rude form of needless censorship.
Can't we just get more cops, instead? Then we don't have to worry about the 18+ gangsters either.
Editorial on Curfew
Here is an editorial posted to the Fresno Bee by a friend of mine:
Extend the curfew
07/25/07 05:06:12
Who can blame the deciders at River Park for banning teenagers from their establishments after 6 p.m.? As a high school teacher, I know all too well how irritating teenagers can be. Nothing interferes with the pleasant atmosphere and efficient operation of my school more than having so many of those energetic, boisterous, disrespectful, rebellious youth running loose through our halls and classrooms.
I, therefore, suggest a curfew for our schools. No teenager should be allowed on the school grounds after 12 noon. Oh, the work I could get done! Parents, have no fear. From noon until 6 p.m., your teens can all hang out safely at River Park.
Paul Lake
Fresno
Kids have the power.
Of course the cerfew does not apply to Edwards. We all like to pick and choose and skim the easy money off of the top. If the kids would simply stop going to RiverPark every day and every hour, don't you think The powers that be at Edwards would make sure the cerfew policy got changed.
The power is with the people. Kids sand up for what you want, Don't let them take your money with out getting what you want.
Post new comment